Ludwig vc: It's joever.....

Im sorry I do this to every fandom im in

Here we stand, feet planted in the earth, but might the cosmos be very near us, only just above our heads?

Bloodborne, March 24, 2015

It could be both! Either way she was likely working for Nyx after Persephone left the Underworld after Zagreus's stillbirth for example. And her duties as guarding the Crossroads means she likely wasn't in the House much really. The first game does discuss how a lot of members of the Chthonic gods aren't represented or otherwise available to talk to then. (Speaking of which - does Nem even count as a Chthonic god? All her mythologies are Surface related and even she's got her deal with Artemis). Since the conflict in the first game never really involved her directly she didn't get involved, and since we don't know how long Persephone and Zagreus's machinations lasted before Chronos struck it could be some of the old ways (that is, Hecate working for Persephone directly) were never re-instated.

Yeah I've noticed that with Mel and Telemachus!! I hope he's the NPC cause it'll make for good parallels/dynamic I think for the two of them to bond over.

And while I agree that it's too early to cast judgement on Od/Penelope it could be that what's up with them is that Mel smoothens out their dynamic to make em friends post-divorce maybe? Or otherwise have Od not avoid his family yeah.

But seriously, your posts actually made me realize that oh, the reason Nem reads as so rude (aside from the fact that the overwhelming majority of the ways she chooses to word her grievances ARE, objectively, very hurtful and rude) is that she's the only one actively acknowledging that hey, this is??? kinda fucked up actually? Why is Mel the one expected to do what is, by any currently understood metric, an impossible task with no assistance beyond Thoughts and Prayers from Olympians and a "go get 'em, tiger" from the assorted parental figures in camp? Most of whom then tell her that actually no, I'm not your real parent, your real parents are in time prison and I only took care of you so that you're strong enough to break them out of time prison one day.

Nemesis is the only one pointing at Mel like "you ruined a perfectly good goddess is what you did, Hecate. Look at it! It's got anxiety and imposter syndrome!"

Nemesis isn't the only one to show this concern! The only other person actively trying to do something about Melinoe's maladaptive and self-destructive behaviors is...Eris. Eris who is trying to loosen Mel up in the only way she knows how - doing the House of Hades tradition of trying to bond with someone by fighting to the Death. Unfortunately, Eris is so smarmy in the way she explains that is also comes off as insincere. The sisters are actually quite similar in this respect. It's also giving very strong "Nyx fires Dusa to force her to not overwork herself to the bone". Which is, likely where they both inherited that perspective from actually. Like Nem, Eris is like "why do you care about these people?" even.

I do think Hecate does care about Melinoe genuinely. But as I've hypothesized before, I think Titans being another step removed from humans cannot rationalize emotions and connections the same way gods or even mortals can. That's a thing that's discussed even in one of the nectar convos with Hecate. She mentions not understanding mortal gestures and customs like this, though is quick to assure Melinoe that she appreciates it nonetheless. Interestingly, Nemesis mentions in her fishing(?) convo and another how she understands the mortal concept of justice, evil, etc. and those things is something setting her apart from her family. Which I think is part of the conflict between her and Hecate.

Odysseus is so interesting to me. He's an uncle/brother figure (per what Mel tells him) and he clearly cares but you can feel the sense that he keeps his distance. And that's his baggage with goddesses speaking there I think. He's a mortal interacting with gods and gods have their own perspectives on things and they have the power to Hurt You if things line up wrong. Which is part of some of the themes of this game of mortals vs gods vs titans.

Anyways you are correct and I'm just elaborating more here.

There's a convo where Hecate mentions to Mel that she watched the House of Hades family from afar (implying they weren't close per se) but seeing as she was Nyx's handmaiden according to Nemesis makes me wonder about how she how she sees Melinoe and that responsibility. Especially when working for Nyx, Hades was the one to have her squirrel Mel away in the nightmare/flashback.

Honestly that's a pretty good read on Od right there. I haven't considered it from that angle but it makes sense imho. Him knowing the flaws of his character (and how it costed him Penelope and Telemachus in the afterlife), so he keeps his distance here cause he can't trust himself to not make it Weird. I wonder if his arc will be reuniting him his with his estranged family (maybe Telemachus or Penelope is the NPC of the third region of the Surface?).

But seriously, your posts actually made me realize that oh, the reason Nem reads as so rude (aside from the fact that the overwhelming majority of the ways she chooses to word her grievances ARE, objectively, very hurtful and rude) is that she's the only one actively acknowledging that hey, this is??? kinda fucked up actually? Why is Mel the one expected to do what is, by any currently understood metric, an impossible task with no assistance beyond Thoughts and Prayers from Olympians and a "go get 'em, tiger" from the assorted parental figures in camp? Most of whom then tell her that actually no, I'm not your real parent, your real parents are in time prison and I only took care of you so that you're strong enough to break them out of time prison one day.

Nemesis is the only one pointing at Mel like "you ruined a perfectly good goddess is what you did, Hecate. Look at it! It's got anxiety and imposter syndrome!"

Nemesis isn't the only one to show this concern! The only other person actively trying to do something about Melinoe's maladaptive and self-destructive behaviors is...Eris. Eris who is trying to loosen Mel up in the only way she knows how - doing the House of Hades tradition of trying to bond with someone by fighting to the Death. Unfortunately, Eris is so smarmy in the way she explains that is also comes off as insincere. The sisters are actually quite similar in this respect. It's also giving very strong "Nyx fires Dusa to force her to not overwork herself to the bone". Which is, likely where they both inherited that perspective from actually. Like Nem, Eris is like "why do you care about these people?" even.

I do think Hecate does care about Melinoe genuinely. But as I've hypothesized before, I think Titans being another step removed from humans cannot rationalize emotions and connections the same way gods or even mortals can. That's a thing that's discussed even in one of the nectar convos with Hecate. She mentions not understanding mortal gestures and customs like this, though is quick to assure Melinoe that she appreciates it nonetheless. Interestingly, Nemesis mentions in her fishing(?) convo and another how she understands the mortal concept of justice, evil, etc. and those things is something setting her apart from her family. Which I think is part of the conflict between her and Hecate.

Odysseus is so interesting to me. He's an uncle/brother figure (per what Mel tells him) and he clearly cares but you can feel the sense that he keeps his distance. And that's his baggage with goddesses speaking there I think. He's a mortal interacting with gods and gods have their own perspectives on things and they have the power to Hurt You if things line up wrong. Which is part of some of the themes of this game of mortals vs gods vs titans.

Anyways you are correct and I'm just elaborating more here.

Me shaking twt people: MELINOE IS NOT A BOTTOM!!! SHE'S A TOP WHO"S SURROUNDED BY HYPER-THIRSTY SUBS. SHE IS NOT ZAGREUS IN THIS REGARD

points @ nemesis: middle child syndrome.

Honestly yeah :/. Especially her deal trying to save Nyx and Than (who is her younger brother btw per the JPN translation) even though Nyx wasn't there for her the same way she was with Zagreus.

Definitely and Mel's response to Hecate denying that connection, the italicized "oh" there is so painful. But I do think it's one of those things that is tragically a misunderstanding born out of differences in psychology there. Circe also saw Hecate as a mother figure, and was rebuffed similarly to Mel when she expressed the sentiment as well. There's even a dialogue with Hecate where Hecate mentions Circe sends the reports to her instead of Odysseus as they're supposed to, but when Mel says she'll correct Circe on that Hecate's like "don't do it, it'll keep her loyalty to the cause that way" as if adopted familial piety is what is keeping Circe on their side. It's a bit manipulative; it's insane. I do think it's a psychological dearth here going on.

And definitely. Everything about Mel's circumstance seems to be piecemeal and made from stick and glue but also the circumstances forced it to be that way so :/. Eris actually brings it up in one of their convos - how Mel ought to be having fun, not doing it for some family she doesn't know (again Eris is wrong but the intent behind it seems to be well-meaning).

And both Eris and Nem are injuring Mel in a way (even if trying to help) in the same way Nyx firing Dusa injured her. Cause the job gave Dusa purpose after the circumstances of her monsterhood and such. (Sidenote: I am so insanely curious as to what Nyx would think of Mel and visa versa - Nyx was likely planning to be as involved with Mel as she was with Zagreus. Only for Mel to turn out like That. And then there's Mel's perceptions likely influenced by the daughters Nyx spurned raising in favor of raising Persephone's revived son. Supergiant please give me the good delicious messy plotline I beg you-) I'd say though, that the Eris plotline is still pretty unfinished from what I've seen as opposed to Nemesis - Nem's big moment (unless something is added later) is when she apologizes to Mel for being so unsupportive and not believing Mel could actually kill Chronos. As far as I know (I still have yet to get a lot of Eris dialogue ngl) Eris doesn't have a moment like that yet.

Yeah and there's his thing where he's like he's "weak to sorceresses/witches" and it's like ??? Dude, she's not forcing you into anything. So his agreeing to her things reads as somewhat forced or even insincere but Mel is too autistic to read how they make him uncomfortable. And it's not just with Mel he's the same way with Moros (who is as equally autistic and doesn't pick up on it). Gnawing on the bars on my cage over this it's clear his plotline isn't finished either so where they'll take this is ambiguous atm.

But seriously, your posts actually made me realize that oh, the reason Nem reads as so rude (aside from the fact that the overwhelming majority of the ways she chooses to word her grievances ARE, objectively, very hurtful and rude) is that she's the only one actively acknowledging that hey, this is??? kinda fucked up actually? Why is Mel the one expected to do what is, by any currently understood metric, an impossible task with no assistance beyond Thoughts and Prayers from Olympians and a "go get 'em, tiger" from the assorted parental figures in camp? Most of whom then tell her that actually no, I'm not your real parent, your real parents are in time prison and I only took care of you so that you're strong enough to break them out of time prison one day.

Nemesis is the only one pointing at Mel like "you ruined a perfectly good goddess is what you did, Hecate. Look at it! It's got anxiety and imposter syndrome!"

Nemesis isn't the only one to show this concern! The only other person actively trying to do something about Melinoe's maladaptive and self-destructive behaviors is...Eris. Eris who is trying to loosen Mel up in the only way she knows how - doing the House of Hades tradition of trying to bond with someone by fighting to the Death. Unfortunately, Eris is so smarmy in the way she explains that is also comes off as insincere. The sisters are actually quite similar in this respect. It's also giving very strong "Nyx fires Dusa to force her to not overwork herself to the bone". Which is, likely where they both inherited that perspective from actually. Like Nem, Eris is like "why do you care about these people?" even.

I do think Hecate does care about Melinoe genuinely. But as I've hypothesized before, I think Titans being another step removed from humans cannot rationalize emotions and connections the same way gods or even mortals can. That's a thing that's discussed even in one of the nectar convos with Hecate. She mentions not understanding mortal gestures and customs like this, though is quick to assure Melinoe that she appreciates it nonetheless. Interestingly, Nemesis mentions in her fishing(?) convo and another how she understands the mortal concept of justice, evil, etc. and those things is something setting her apart from her family. Which I think is part of the conflict between her and Hecate.

Odysseus is so interesting to me. He's an uncle/brother figure (per what Mel tells him) and he clearly cares but you can feel the sense that he keeps his distance. And that's his baggage with goddesses speaking there I think. He's a mortal interacting with gods and gods have their own perspectives on things and they have the power to Hurt You if things line up wrong. Which is part of some of the themes of this game of mortals vs gods vs titans.

Anyways you are correct and I'm just elaborating more here.

‼️‼️

“Nem I think I can see Cerberus now!”

Not vague-ing the person at all but I do think it's funny they're saying "Save me Lady Maria of the Astral Clocktower." If there's one thing Maria extremely failed at well you know. Girl's never saved or saving anyone unfortunately. She got put to watch over the Fishing Hamlet sentry style in the nightmare and she ultimately fails that even.

But seriously, your posts actually made me realize that oh, the reason Nem reads as so rude (aside from the fact that the overwhelming majority of the ways she chooses to word her grievances ARE, objectively, very hurtful and rude) is that she's the only one actively acknowledging that hey, this is??? kinda fucked up actually? Why is Mel the one expected to do what is, by any currently understood metric, an impossible task with no assistance beyond Thoughts and Prayers from Olympians and a "go get 'em, tiger" from the assorted parental figures in camp? Most of whom then tell her that actually no, I'm not your real parent, your real parents are in time prison and I only took care of you so that you're strong enough to break them out of time prison one day.

Nemesis is the only one pointing at Mel like "you ruined a perfectly good goddess is what you did, Hecate. Look at it! It's got anxiety and imposter syndrome!"

Nemesis isn't the only one to show this concern! The only other person actively trying to do something about Melinoe's maladaptive and self-destructive behaviors is...Eris. Eris who is trying to loosen Mel up in the only way she knows how - doing the House of Hades tradition of trying to bond with someone by fighting to the Death. Unfortunately, Eris is so smarmy in the way she explains that it also comes off as insincere. The sisters are actually quite similar in this respect. It's also giving very strong "Nyx fires Dusa to force her to not overwork herself to the bone". Which is, likely where they both inherited that perspective from actually. Like Nem, Eris is like "why do you care about these people?" even.

I do think Hecate does care about Melinoe genuinely. But as I've hypothesized before, I think Titans being another step removed from humans cannot rationalize emotions and connections the same way gods or even mortals can. That's a thing that's discussed even in one of the nectar convos with Hecate. She mentions not understanding mortal the gods gestures and customs like this, though is quick to assure Melinoe that she appreciates it nonetheless. Interestingly, Nemesis mentions in her fishing(?) convo and another how she understands the mortal concept of justice, evil, etc. and those things is something setting her apart from her family. Which I think is part of the conflict between her and Hecate.

Odysseus is so interesting to me. He's an uncle/brother figure (per what Mel tells him) and he clearly cares but you can feel the sense that he keeps his distance. And that's his baggage with goddesses speaking there I think. He's a mortal interacting with gods and gods have their own perspectives on things and they have the power to Hurt You if things line up wrong. Which is part of some of the themes of this game of mortals vs gods vs titans.

Anyways you are correct and I'm just elaborating more here.

Bloodborne: A Song of Crows (Issue #11)

Nemesis' words: the fact that you're being made to do all this for people you've only met by proxy because of other peoples' failures and mistakes fills me with moral outrage that comes not just from my divine purpose but also from my affection for you as a person.

Nemesis' tone: fuck you and fuck your dumbass frog especially.

Publishing this as is cause there's nothing else to add you're 100% on the mark here. Literally their whole ass relationship

Pyrrhuloxia aka Desert Cardinal (Cardinalis sinuatus), male, fluffin and rufflin, family Cardinalidae, order Passeriformes, Lomita Wildlife Photography Ranch, Uvalde, TX, USA

Photograph by Laura Lee Baker Barfield

Blue Crown Hanging Parrot (Loriculus galgulus), male, family Psittaculidae, order Psittaciformes, Singapore

photograph by Chew Thong Khoo

shout out to the Japanese translation of the game confirming the order of Nyx's children as

the Fates

Charon

Moros

Nemesis

the Twins (Than and Hypnos)

Eris

Honestly doing the heavy lifting the other versions of the games can't really explain without it being out of place