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gunnies-gummies · 2 years

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I’m not a steddie ‘shipper’ (I don’t engage in that particular fandom, but I do actually ship those two characters together)

The thing that sucks about homophobia is that, Eddie walking in and being a love interest for Steve would have actually been really good storytelling. Steve was struggling with dating, couldn’t find someone he connected with and they all felt bland. Having him fall for the metal head dnd player? It would have done wonders for his character arc, makes sense narratively, the actors had chemistry. I’m very pro Steddie and I don’t think their shippers are stupid or something. It’s really just that homophobia is so normalized and it’s ‘not allowed’ to just happen. Straight people feel like they deserve an explanation all the time, and that they deserve to have all these characters to themselves and that queer audiences need to be spoken to like toddlers. Example:

“Did you really think Steve or Eddie was going to be queer? I mean, be realistic.”

I want to talk to byler shippers about that line too actually. Stop fucking saying it, we’ve had to deal with people thinking we’re delusional forever and now that we have more evidence and stuff we turn around and say the same shit to another queer ship? Enough.

Anyways, Eddie was always going to be used as a plot device for Dustin’s arc, that’s just so blatant. It’s sad though, because it would have make Steve Harrington a very unique character.

Also, Steve and Eddie did have screentime, they did act like friends, at least somewhat, they had chemistry. I’m saying this as someone who’s not involved in the Steddie fandom at all, like I barely paid attention to Eddie in the show and I STILL understand.

Steddie shippers have been getting a lot of shit recently because of the woods scene they want, and it’s just not okay. I get that everyone wants what they want, but it’s not a big deal, it’s really not.

Bylers, I’m just trying to say let’s try and not tear down and be shitty towards another queer ship. It’s not helpful, it’s not kind, and we’re acting very similarly to the m*leven shippers.

Steddie shippers if you don’t want this in your tag just let me know and I’ll change it.

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gunnies-gummies · 2 years

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another little comparison i love is the way that mike and el’s relationship stems from need while mike and will’s stems from want.

mike and el needed each other. mike needed el in order to find will. el needed mike to keep her safe. el and mike feel like they need to be someone else in order to keep the other person happy. mike and el felt like they needed to stay together in order to have some sense of normalcy in their lives after everything changed. how el no longer needs mike.

mike and will wanted to be friends. they want to protect each other, they want to play games for the rest of their lives together, they choose to emotionally support each other. they want each other so badly because of how they make each other feel. mike makes will feel like he isn’t a freak or a mistake or even normal. he makes him feel special, makes him feel like he’s more than a victim. will makes mike feel like his actual, genuine self is good. that mike is a good person just the way he is and that he isn’t immature or stupid for being passionate. in season 4 they want to see each other smile: mike tries to make will laugh and mends their relationship and will gives him that painting and tries to make mike feel important and needed and special (how mike makes him feel).

mike and el needed each other because they were unsure how to live without the other person. mike and will need each other because of how badly they want each other.

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gunnies-gummies · 2 years

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The party’s dnd games as foreshadowing for S5

After seeing this post by @bylertruther yesterday, I started theorizing about possible scenarios for the end battle of S5 and how the party’s dnd games throughout the seasons foreshadow what might happen. I’m just going to dive right in to this analysis, and it might get somewhat long, so this is your warning, lol.

The very first scene we see of the party in S1 is a dnd game, in which Will rolls a 7, and his character is attacked by the demogorgan. It’s quite clear throughout S1 that this move foreshadows exactly what happened to Will when he got taken to the Upside Down later that same night– he even tells Mike right before this happens: “the demogorgan, it got me.” We’ve all been over this fact a million times and we all know how blatant the foreshadowing is, but this is important setup for the rest of this analysis, so just keep this scene in mind.

After Will gets saved and as Christmastime approaches, the party gets together for another dnd game. Mike has spent lots of time planning it, and wants it to be perfect because it’s supposedly Will’s first time playing dnd again since being in the Upside Down and being hunted by the demogorgan. The game ends in victory, with Will rolling a 14 and defeating the new enemy Mike has cooked up: the thessalhydra.

Here’s where things get interesting. Even though Will defeats the thessalhydra, the party isn’t happy with the outcome of the game. They question Mike about plot holes and loose threads that never got addressed (which led to lots of plot theorizing pre-S2, but even after S2 a lot of this didn’t make sense– but that’s because it was meant as foreshadowing for even later). The questions asked didn’t make sense back then, but they could make sense in the context of S5.

The “lost knight”? Mike is the paladin of the party: a knight in shining armor who bravely protects his friends to the death. Could this be foreshadowing to Mike becoming trapped (or lost) in the Upside Down in S5? Or is this perhaps a reference to Mike being “lost” in regards to his feelings towards Will and El and how to accept deep truths about himself?

The “proud princess”? I originally couldn’t come up with anything for this one, but @bylertruther brought up the fact that Max is going to be a damsel in distress of sorts in S5, while waiting for her friends to save her from Vecna’s clutches. She also has the princess imagery going while stuck in her coma– think of Sleeping Beauty or Snow White. True love will be what saves her in the end, either romantic (Lucas) or platonic (El).

The “weird flowers in the cave”? It’s pretty self-explanatory that the demogorgan’s/demodog’s faces are flower-shaped. As for the caves, the Upside Down as a whole has tons of cave/rocky imagery, what with the tunnels, the cliff Henry climbs after first seeing the mindflayer, and the stalactite-looking spires in the mindscape. I’m guessing that this points towards the final battle taking place not in Hawkins, but in the actual Upside Down for a change.

Let’s talk about the thessalhydra itself for a second though. Because where have we seen something similar before? That’s right: the three-headed dragon in Will’s painting for Mike. Yes, they’re not identical monsters, but there are similarities here. Will’s art has been foreshadowing before (see: the entire plot of S2), so is it that much of a reach that the painting could be foreshadowing to the threat posed to the party in S5?

It’s clear that there will be a monster of some sort in S5– a monster worse than a demogorgan. In 4x08, Vecna shows Nancy the past (his past) and the future. He shows her a monster, her whole family dead, and four gates opened. This was before Max was captured and put into a coma, so Vecna was showing Nancy the true future here. Could Will have seen this same future through his connection to Vecna and subconsciously added it to his painting?

In S2, Will’s connection with the mindflayer (or Vecna, as we now know) allowed him to see what the mindflayer was seeing. His “now-memories” allowed him to see somewhat into the future. Will was able to predict Hopper being in danger based on what he dreamt the night Hopper entered the tunnels. He was even able to pinpoint the exact location of Hopper’s car– just from the now-memories alone! It’s completely feasible that Will would be able to also see things Vecna is seeing in S4/5.

Furthermore, Will acquired true sight from his time in the Upside Down (or possibly related to latent powers?). This is important because true sight means he can see the reality of what’s occurring in the ethereal plane. He’s not seeing visions of what might happen, he’s seeing the truth. This is different from Vecna’s visions, where he causes people to see their worst fears and trauma they haven’t dealt with– truth as a basis, but exacerbated by lies and illusions. Will is seeing the reality of the Upside Down, which can probably extend to Vecna’d mindscape as well, giving him a way to see Vecna’s thoughts and what could happen in the future.

Mike said it himself in S2: Will is a super spy. Sure, the mindflayer was spying through him for a time, but Will was spying right back. Since this connection is still as strong as ever, I’m willing to bet Will may need to take on the “spy” role again in S5. Will can already feel what Vecna is feeling, and see what Vecna’s seeing. I’m sure he’s also privy to Vecna’s motivations and tactics for choosing his victims, so this could be very valuable in the fight against Vecna in S5. If Will can sense who will be targeted and how, it could protect his friends and family from ending up like Max (for now).

So how does Will’s true sight and connection to Vecna connect to the dnd games, the thessalhydra, and his painting? The second-last and final rolls are always very important in foreshadowing what will happen later in the season, and with the “every ending has a beginning” tagline for S4, it’s important to first look at S1. During their dnd game, Will’s role of a 7 got him taken to the Upside Down. But in the next game, he rolled a 14 and defeated the thessalhydra. I think this is pretty clear foreshadowing to the fact that Will is going to be the one to defeat Vecna/the mindflayer for good.

El’s already had her chance, and did her part in S4. Yes, she got out of Vecna’s clutches and hit him with her powers, but she still wasn’t able to save Max. I’m guessing El’s arc will be geared more towards saving Max in S5, rather that directly confronting Vecna again. She’s already done that, so it would be somewhat of a waste to just do a repeat of their battle.

What would be a better alternative? Will being the one to face down (and destroy Vecna). It’s Will who Vecna has been targeting since S1, Will who shares the same similarities to Henry growing up, and Will who has the seemingly unbreakable connection to the mindflayer after all these years. Remember, back in S2, the mindflayer wanted to kill everyone except Will. Why? He obviously has a special connection to him that remains to be seen until the big reveal in S5.

Whatever happens with Vecna though, I think Will’s painting is clear foreshadowing that the party will be facing down a threat from the Upside Down. The Duffers said that the characters will be back in their original S1 groups in S5, and Will is going to be the main focus, so having the party together as a whole (the original four boys, since El will likely be off saving Max) would be the perfect culmination of this.

If we look at their dnd characters, Mike as the paladin is front and center, leading the attack. It’s also important to note that it’s his shield which has the heart on it, pointing to the fact that it’s Will’s love that will ultimately protect Mike. Perhaps since Will is a cleric (and has healing powers), he will have to heal Mike from a bad injury suffered during the battle.

In the dnd game in 4x01, Dustin first rolled an 11 (a miss), which failed in defeating Vecna– clearly foreshadowing the fact that El wouldn’t be able to defeat Vecna on her own. That fact was backed up by how the “final” battle went down in 4x09, when El stopped Vecna briefly (in order to somewhat save Max), but ultimately didn’t defeat him– he managed to escape, and will likely gather his strength to become stronger than ever for the next confrontation in S5.

A 20 was rolled later (by Erica), which was the final blow that defeated Vecna. It’s important to note that Erica was the underdog of Hellfire– the one who was somewhat overlooked because she wasn’t originally from the club. This same concept can be applied to Will (even though he is an original member of the party): he is an underdog in the sense that he hasn’t showed obvious signs of manifesting powers yet, plus, he was overlooked and forgotten by all his friends (and family) in S3/4.

It’s very likely, given all this foreshadowing, that Will is going to be the lucky break that the party needs in order to defeat Vecna once and for all. Will feels different, but Mike makes him feel like it’s ok to be different. Similarly, Mike feels like he has to be needed in order to be worth something, but little does he know Will needs him in the exact way he’s hoping for.

Mike’s love makes Will stronger, and Will’s love protects Mike. Together, they have the strength and ability to defeat Vecna. It may be a cliché, but love does overpower hate and evil. Once Mike and Will realize the love they have for each other is true and pure, they’ll be unstoppable in the fight against Vecna, mainly because they won’t be able to befall any of his tactics of manipulation. Vecna can’t hurt those who are at peace with their inner turmoil and are at the happiest moment in their life. Together, Mike and Will are a force to be reckoned with. Vecna should be scared. El’s powers, he understood because he has observed them and manifested similar ones. Whatever Will has hiding away though, Vecna won’t see coming, which will be the way to end him once and for all.

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gunnies-gummies · 2 years

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Do you think Jason, Angela, and Billy could have been redeemable characters like Steve if they had lived long enough? (Well Angela’s still alive, but I doubt they will see her again). Or were their actions too cruel and too evil?

Angela could grow up and get better with time, she's a bully and a mean girl but she's 15 too... I hope El teached her to be less awful to people if she doesn't want to get beaten up lol

Billy was an adult. He needed to be completely Re educated and it's almost impossible imo also I would not forgive him because he hurt kids, I also think Billy kind of knew he was in the wrong and acted from his rage inside because he hated himself so he couldn't have had a redemption arc without dying like he did, he was too far gone

Jason is a complex character, I don't like him and he is probably a conservative so he is probably homophobic at least (but we don't know for sure) but he lost his mind completely after Chrissy and he wasn't completely a bad person prior to that but even if I think he thought he was in the right for doing what he did.... he still did it

and redeeming him in the eyes of the audience would have been impossible because he caused Max to die ( unintentionally but he did) so he needed to die in the story

I feel like Steve was never that bad from the start, he did some things that were shitty but he thought that Jonathan was a pervert taking pictures of his girlfriend almost naked

and

he thought that Nancy was sleeping with Jonathan and cheating on him so he hated Jonathan and started to try to fight with him using everything that he could think of, he used Will's death and called him "a queer" because he wanted to make Jonathan fight him

does that make it okay to call her a slut or say that to Jonathan? no

does it make it a human reaction of a 16yo kid that thought he was cheated on by the girl he loved? yes

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gunnies-gummies · 2 years

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There was a montage of Max's memories of her friends and Lucas to show that those memories were what pushed Max to fight against Vecna meanwhile El and Mike didn't get a montage during Mike's monologue. They showed the party meeting El and that was it. They didn't give us a Milkvan montage which is weird if that monologue was supposedly the reason why El was able to fight against Vecna, like Milkvan shippers claim.

If Mike's monologue and him saying he loved her was actually what pushed El to fight, shouldn't they have had a montage of all the times they were "in love"?? Shouldn't they have really emphasized that Mike and El have loved each other the ENTIRE show and shown flashbacks to those moments?? Shouldn't they have shown El remembering her "love for Mike" over the years or whatever?? They would have...if Mike saying he loved her and their love for one another was the real reason why El found the strength to fight. But they didn't...which leads me to believe El didn't give two shits about Mike saying he loved her and that wasn't what helped her fight against Vecna. Which is fantastic. I love that they went that route because writing a storyline where a girl can only find strength and courage because a boy said he loved her sets the feminist movement back 200 years, I'm pretty sure.

The vines kept tightening around her neck during Mike's entire monologue. His monologue was not helping her fight. It wasn't giving her the strength to fight against those vines. It was actually making it worse for her. It was restricting her and making it harder for her. What ACTUALLY helped her, was turning to see Max getting killed and hearing Mike say she needed to fight. El found the strength and courage to fight because of her love for MAX and her fear of losing her best friend. It wasn't Mike's "confession." And that is confirmed when they show us a montage of Max and El after where most of the clips were Max telling El about girl power and how there is more to life than boys.

They gave us a montage of El and Max but not El and Mike. That alone is enough proof that Mike's disingenuous monologue was not the reason why El was able to get out of those vines and fight against Vecna.

El really doesn't need Mike. She never did and she never will.

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gunnies-gummies · 2 years

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nah bc if byler isn't endgame then the duffers purposely fucked up mike's character arc, el's character arc, will's character arc, the mileven relationship, AND will and mike's friendship for NO REASON and i know they're better than that!!!

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gunnies-gummies · 2 years

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i really fucking hope you guys ask GOOD questions for finn and not just “do you think byler will be real” or “do you ship byler?”

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gunnies-gummies · 2 years

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We know that Will has feelings for Mike, but you mentioned seeing potential that Mike likes Will back. Could you elaborate a little bit on this?

I will but it'd be bad not to mention that there's a ton of people who've done that better than I ever could. Here's a link to the awesome Byler slides by @beepboop358 that breaks down lots of Byler proof. Whilst I don't know if all of it is intentional, it's definitely worth a read if you're looking into Byler proof and it helped a lot of people join this part of the fandom. Also @shreya11111 has a pinned post with a links to Byler posts post Volume 2 that I'd recommend.

In terms of new evidence, in the script we got, Mike mentions that Eleven had already moved on from him and didn't need him anymore and he could tell it from her eyes. I also think that her signing the letter "from" instead of love was her form of ripping off the bandaid. Mike only confesses his love for Eleven because he thinks she needs it when in reality, Will is the one who needs Mike, and Mike uses Will's feelings to make his confession to Eleven. And at the end of the season, Eleven stands in front of Mike, leaving him behind with Will. She has moved on from him and now he is free to move on to and join Will.

I don't know if Byler will happen or not but there's a ton of proof and analysis out there that can give a little hope. I'm more pessimistic and I do think Byler would've worked best after Volume 2 (as in a M*leven break up and hints to show Mike and Will have mutual feelings for each other), not after S5 or the time skip in that season, however I think it's an option worth looking into and I hope it happens. Hopefully this was an alright starting point for you. Thanks for the ask! (:

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gunnies-gummies · 2 years

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The Byler sides did so much good, but sometimes it feels like they did irreparable damage too because people have become so aggressive and defensive of the exclusively gay mike theory that they often become intolerant and negative towards bi mike truthers. Because the Byler slides really filter EVERYTHING through a gay mike lens. “El looked like a boy, therefore Mike can’t like girls at all.” “Mike said BOYS ONLY and went into the male sauna so that means he doesn’t like girls.” “Mike is REPULSED by El, don’t you see how he moves her hands off him.” The gay mike theory is great too but I think the intensity/binary way of understanding Mike’s sexuality is why we are so divided. Why can’t we all get along? 🤷🏻‍♀️

Yeah sometimes it feels like it and I really don't like some of the asks I'm always getting when I post about Bi Mike, I have deleted a lot because if I responded I would have responded really in an angry way at this point because it's really starting to feel invalidating...

that's also why I really like the idea of making a pro bi Mike - unlabeled Mike power point or pdf... I could just link that to people when they ask about it if they want to read more about bi Mike with an open mindset...

I always love to read theories about gay mike too, I just have a different opinion and I don't think they are doing that in the show because they showed us that he values people that are different in a really positive way since childhood, I feel like if he understood his own feelings he would accept being queer pretty easily tbh

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gunnies-gummies · 2 years

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Who wants to help me make one??? Since I have nothing to do I don’t mind helping making one- 👀 (obviously with teamwork tho cause I’m sure this is gonna take a lot)

we should make a byler masterdoc with actual proof (i don't wanna be mean, the one we have is really cool, but there's some reaching there and I hc mike as bi so I don't agree with some stuff)

like with actual deep analysis from the show like the ones we've seen daily here in the tag

to send to everyone after season 5 come out that wants to understand how byler was destined to be together (and for us to remember how fun it was to make analysis)

I think it'd be pretty cool I'd send to all of my friends lmao

come on bylers, make it a real project!!!!!

this is a good idea! We could make a version of the masterdoc for bisexual or unlabeled Mike specifically maybe?

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gunnies-gummies · 2 years

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stranger things hits so different if you’ve been here since the beginning like i can’t explain what this show does to my brain

it’s so satisfying although agonizing to have to wait for the seasons to come out but then get to see how much everyone has grown and how the show has progressed

like season one … i still VIVIDLY remember watching it in 2016. i was 13 at the time and it was the first tv show other than avatar the last airbender that actually made me cry. like i remember it so fucking well. and season 2 era?? it was so superior i can’t even explain it like you really had to be here… the halloween vibes??? byler?? the PROMO for season 2?? i miss it so much… and season 2 feels SO long ago to me because i had just started high school. i remember when we found out that season 3 was set in the summer and i ran to all my friends in drama class and told them lol. and OMG?? season 3 filming era?? who remembers the rise of strangerthingsfilming?? all the season 3 set pics we got… yall it was INSANNNEEEEE TIMES.

like i associate every season of the show with a particular era of my life which is what makes all this analysis SO SATISFYING FOR ME… it just makes my brain buzz irktmfkskfmemdmmd i love it

this is why byler for example just hits me on such a deep level because i truly have grown up with these characters and been the same age as them and have really been here for the ENTIRE SLOW BURN…. it just makes it sooo SOOOOO…. AAAAAAAAAHGGSHRBFNNDNDMDMDMDK

anyways

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gunnies-gummies · 2 years

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gunnies-gummies · 2 years

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A ton of credit for this post goes to @dinitride-art, who pointed out Mike's discomfort being at Suzie's house in Part 13 of their lighting analysis, I hadn't picked up on that previously at all. I wanted to expand on that a little, focusing more on just Mike (not Will as we've seen him accept himself and his sexuality a lot more and as such there's just not as much here to analyze with Will) instead of the lighting, but all props go to @dinitride-art!!! Check out their lighting analysis, it's been blowing my mind!

So we've all talked about how Mike's parents being Reagan supporters definitely could have impacted Mike's internalized homophobia. But as far as I remember, there aren't any religious symbols in the Wheeler house and religion hasn't played a part in the show much before.

Suzie being Mormon played a role in s3, as an explanation for why Dustin and Suzie needed to keep in touch via radio instead of via the phone. But in s4, we see Suzie's household being a field of landmines for Mike's internalized homophobia. That lens kind of puts into context this ridiculous sideplot that felt on the first watch through like a bit of a time suck: it showed Mike's discomfort and fear of being himself.

Walking up to the house, Jonathon warns them that they need to "be on their best behavior, with Mike pointing out "they're just really religious." This is played for laughs with respect to Argyle, but that line is there to highlight something else: internalized homophobia that makes Mike hesitant to admit his feelings towards Will. Argyle says he's super spiritual, and Mike says "I think they're spiritual too, just in a different way." With the implication being that while Argyle's spirituality is free and connected with nature, Suzie's family may be more likely to judge them... maybe just Argyle and so he shouldn't talk about smoking in front of them, but it's more than that, and Mike knows that. We'll come back to these lines later.

We see in the sequence before they find Suzie that there's a ton of imagery that, pre-vol2, a lot of people theorized were death clues towards Mike's, but seeing that he remained physically unharmed in vol2, I'm guessing that this imagery instead was meant to imply how unsafe Mike feels in this house. He is gay and struggling with feelings towards Will, and doesn't want to be found out and condemned by this super religious family. @dinitride-art mentioned that entering the house, Will is on Mike's LEFT side, with Mike's heart pocket facing away from Will, which rarely happens this season. Mike is trying to appear more straight.

Back to the house being dangerous for Mike: he's hit in the head with a fake arrow, a girl drops in front of Mike, choking and bleeding from the neck (a reminder for Mike that he needs save El quickly, as well as imagery similar to El later on being choked by the vines, and this foreshadowing in this house while he's trying to appear straight also foreshadows that Mike's love confession doesn't work because it's not genuine, he can't save everyone with a lie), the knife chopping quickly with Mike emerging from the background, and then more subtly, the discomfort associated with being expected to be in love with El, reflected in Mike's annoyance at Argyle and Eden flirting: "falling in love at first sight" with a girl.

After that scene, we skip to other characters but it's important to note that directly preceding returning to Suzie's, we are once again shown religion being used against our characters: Jason basically preaches to the town about why they need to hunt the Hellfire club down because they're Satanic worshippers and murderers. Just an interesting parallel: they're really hammering home that religion is dangerous for our characters right now. These scenes are one after another to show that parallel: it's not just happening back in Hawkins, it's in Salt Lake City too.

In the next scene, we see Eden interrupt and mock Suzie's scolding about her language, saying "what, am I going to burn in hell now?" and then we see Mike looking after her, looking... on edge and holding himself stiffly. Eden's words are a reminder of punishments for sinning, including being gay. A forcible reminder that they're in a very religious house, to Mike and the audience. We then see him glancing back at Will right after that as Will speaks up to continue the conversation. Will helps him stay on track with what they need when he's distracted and Will's also there as someone to help Mike as he feels anxious in this house.

But when Suzie talks about how her dad took her computer, there's a big focus on her dating the wrong person, an Agnostic(!), and her father's anger towards her and punishment. When we cut back to our group, Mike is hanging his head, likely reflecting on how that punishment could apply to him as well, but soon after, he looks back to Will again. Just looking at Will provides comfort, maybe helps Mike feel like he's not a mistake??

Moving onto the next segment, we see Mike pressed against the wall before sneaking into Suzie's father's study, and Mike is the main focus of this shot. All the other characters hiding here are basically hidden in shadows, but we see Mike's face: he's afraid of Suzie's dad for more reasons than just the obvious.

Once inside, we see Mike censor himself from saying "holy shit," changing it to "holy heck." Going back to the opening lines at this house, Mike suggested that Argyle is the one that would have to change his behavior around Suzie's family, but no. We see Argyle act completely genuine with no suppression of how he always acts and he does perfectly okay inside the house. Mike, on the other hand, has to suppress his language, but what else? We see Mike shifting away from Will when he gets close. This is possibly the first and only time Mike moves away from Will like that in the entire show?? It would make sense that he would do this here, in the office of a man that gets angry at a kid for dating the wrong person according to his religion, with a religious painting right behind their heads.

Running down the stairs, as mentioned by @dinitride-art, Mike pushes himself as far away from Suzie's father as possible. Will on the other hand, looks him right in the face, going back to the idea that Will feels more comfortable with his sexuality now in the face of people that might disagree with it.

And then we see Will putting his hand on Mike's back, almost to comfort him, as if he knows Mike felt uncomfortable in that house.

In conclusion, being in Suzie's house with her big Mormon family was Mike's big "when you're different you feel like a mistake" moment, but he looked to Will for comfort, and Will provided it, making Mike feel like he's not a mistake at all.

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gunnies-gummies · 2 years

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I know there's like a million more interesting things to talk about from s4 about Mike, but I rewatched 4x01 last night and was thinking again about that theory about how when Mike barged into the school newspaper room, the moment was so awkward because Mike felt awkward because two cute guys were staring at him.

He looks at these two guys and the camera LINGERS before Mike sees Nancy, who's standing in the middle of the room. She shouldn't have been that hard to find? And there's a nice little rainbow on the desk too. Also the door behind him is the Dark Room, but almost like a closet??

And then going through the rest of the people Mike and Dustin asked to be subs for the DnD game:

Dustin asking Steve makes sense, they're besties. Instead of seeing Mike asking Max though (Max, who's definitely the most logical next option), we see Mike asking this guy in the wrestling room.

There's a weird, slow pan over the guys wrestling in the background first, and there's guys working out in the background too. Maybe so much focus on the wrestling guys because that's where Mike's focus was (also the lighting??? Bright sunlight falling on the guys, highlighting their muscles, showing us where Mike's looking). Again, the camera lingered. And again, Mike is framed by a door that could potentially be an equipment closet, surrounded by guys working out.

Then Dustin asks Max:

And again, Mike asking this other stranger (who is a little nerdy just like Mike is, who's wearing a striped shirt just like Will often does) (with a lot of blue and yellow and green liquids in the beakers):

From here, we see four other classmates that were asked. If the pattern holds true, we were shown the people that Dustin asked and then who Mike asked, alternating.

With this pattern, the people that Dustin asked are on the left, the people that Mike asked are on the right. For the girl in the top right, there's a lot going on in that shot. This girl with short hair, wearing a rainbow (another rainbow seen from the perspective of Mike in this scene, while there weren't any in Dustin's shots), heart earrings that made me think of Will's painting, a sign pointing to the right like the ONE WAY sign pointing right into Mike's closet in his bedroom, and someone in the background looking a lot like Mike would from the back when wearing his teal shirt that he wears for most of the season. Basically screaming "this is Mike, he's gay, he's in the closet, and he's the heart."

And then the guys playing chess on the bottom right. Honestly they remind me more of Mike and Dustin than anyone else: Mike on the left and Dustin (curly hair and hat) on the right. But again, nerdy guys wearing striped shirts, just like Will does a lot, that Mike could relate to.

Definitely feels like reaching, but Dustin asked the people they knew and a good mix of other people, boys and girls. Mike asked a bunch of guys that maybe reminded him of Will or that his eye was caught on, got distracted by some cute older guys and wrestling guys that were working out and not wearing much, and asked one heavily queer-coded girl in a queer-coded room.

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gunnies-gummies · 2 years

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Mike, internalized homophobia, and religion in s4: there's not a lot there, it's really all concentrated in 4.01, 4.06, and 4.09, but I just wanted to do a quick analysis of what we're shown.

Mike is himself in 4.01: snarky, nerdy, and checking out guys (more analysis on that here). D&D is connected to the ideas of Satanic Cults and sodomy. But Mike doesn't care about those implications, he loves D&D and is prioritizing what Will criticized him for neglecting in s3.

The Hellfire Club has an anti-religious name: "hell fire," and has a big devil on the shirt that Mike wears proudly. He's rejecting conformity and embracing what makes him different.

In ep 4.02-4.05, Mike has a big ebb and flow: he moves away from himself while with El but returns to himself when he makes up with Will (smiles genuinely, unclenches his jaw for once, is honest about his feelings about losing Will, checks him out in the desert, and nods when Will posits the question: "what if they don't like the truth?").

Jason gets religious in 4.06:

D&D - sodomy - Satanic Cults - disease - AIDS?

Religion is being used to attack our characters in Hawkins but also in Salt Lake City in the very next scene at Suzie's house.

I went a lot more into theorizing about Suzie's house here. Long story short, Mike feels the pressure of changing himself in this house of a very religious family. Eden interrupts them talking to Suzie and we get this scene:

Eden talks about "hell fire" and Mike's reaction: he's stiff, defensive, and almost afraid, looking after Eden a beat too long. And then Suzie describes how angry her dad got about her dating the wrong kind of person according to his religion, and again we see Mike's reaction:

He looks directly down and looks miserable! Arms still crossed, defensive, but like he's feeling the weight of her words.

In the sequence of distractions for Suzie's dad, there's a fire in the kitchen. Hell fire?? And what do we get right after this quick scene?

Mike shifting away from Will. Hanging on the wall directly behind Suzie is a large painting of the Last Supper. Mike is feeling uncomfortable, watched, and extra aware of his feelings towards Will.

We return to some religious imagery in 4.09:

The same Bible verse that Jason quoted pops up again, this time in red paint, red like blood. Just like in 4.06, religion in some way hurt our characters. Jason used it as his ammunition against the Hawkins group, resulting in Lucas being badly hurt, Erica being assaulted, and Max not being able to be saved by Lucas when he planned to step in. And we also see Mike here: in the background, with El, looking scared. Mike has retreated back into himself now that he said I love you to El after being unable to be honest with her.

This was Mike's season for internalized homophobia. He is getting pushed one way by societal pressures, religion, and his relationship with El. And he's getting pulled the other way by his desire to be himself, be happy, and be with Will.

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