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The Witch of Sighs
A fandom blog. Dungeon Meshi + WTC.
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feeling very normal about them (<- lying)
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my little brain eating amoebas <3
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was looking for something and found my favourite izutsumi panel
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MHA 423: Breakdown + Speculation
(MANGA SPOILERS.)
I would like to start this off by saying that there was a lot set up with the OFA realm that never got used (if this is the true conclusion.)
Nothing further came from Katsuki entering the OFA realm. (I think that it’s obvious that Katsuki came back being able to tap into OFA, but that was never actually confirmed.)
Nothing came from Toshinori and his vestige syncing...
Nothing came from Star’s vestige reappearing. (Star originally gave up her chance to kill Tomura/AFO, because she saw Tenko still inside the vestige realm… this is all very interesting timing.)
“Master… I found a sad child. He’s right there.”
(This literally happened only 10 chapters ago. It’s not like these were older events that were suddenly written out as being relevant.)
All of this was done for a purpose, all foreshadowing for something more. It would be horrifically bad writing if quite literally nothing came from it.
How Tenko Will Survive:
“I have no doubt All For One was absorbed and stopped existing.”
Izuku questioned how AFO was able to come back, even stressing how he was sure that AFO had been fully absorbed (this literally happened 2 chapters ago…) and ceased to exist.
All For One isn’t the only character this has happened to either!!
Yoichi (+ the other vestiges) came back as well. AFO was certain that Yoichi’s vestige had been shattered and destroyed.
“How dare you destroy my One For All… My Yoichi…”
“When I heard the sound of Yoichi being shattered to pieces… my whole world turned grey.”
Even Star’s vestige reappearing is an example of this happening… the fact that we have gotten no explanation for any of this is so weird.
There is definitely something more going on here that hasn’t been revealed yet.
((I personally think that this is gearing up for All For One (quirk) reaching the point of singularity… OFA has already reached that point, but AFO has not. I feel like it’s somewhat inevitable, imo.))
I can see Tomura’s “soul” (his sense of self, IMO) being saved by whatever had originally brought back the other vestiges, and his body being saved by the Overhaul quirk he possesses.
Tomura believes that his only purpose (the reason that he was even born) is to destroy. He literally mourns the fact that he wasn’t able to destroy Izuku’s arms, not because it was something that he enjoyed, but because destruction is the only thing that Tomura believes he’s capable of…
Overhaul gives Tomura the ability to CREATE and not just destroy. Tomura didn’t even have a chance to process the idea that he could possibly do that. It didn’t even seem to register for him at all.
I think that Tomura referring to himself (“Shigaraki Tomura”) in quotations is gearing up for a “death of Shigaraki Tomura, rebirth of Shimura Tenko” type deal.
I also want to add that we never actually saw Izuku use One For All on Tomura.
We didn’t see Tomura’s body cease to exist, we saw his vestige be destroyed.
Izuku and Tomura do not actually need to be near each other in person to interact within the vestige realm!! (I truly wouldn’t be surprised if some Kurogiri portal fuckery is going on here as well.)
Speculation:
Alright. I’m trying not to be delusional about this, but there was definitely something off about this chapter. Not in a poorly written way, but in a “there is some fuckery going on here” type way.
This seemed like a purposefully manufactured “end” to One For All and All For One… A performance more than anything. (This could be the result of a rushed ending, but I’m going to be optimistic about all of this.) Izuku referring to All Might as “the Eighth” was so odd.
The scene of AFO speaking to Yoichi’s “embers” was also very strange to me. The entire conversation between Yoichi and AFO felt off, as if Yoichi was just a distraction. Also the fact that all of the vestiges were able to hold their full forms, except for Yoichi is such a red flag… (Even AFO’s vestige was able to revert back to its pre-injured self.) Especially since Izuku had held onto OFA the most out of all of the past users quirks… OFA is special to Izuku, not for its power but because it had been a gift from All Might.
Izuku is not incapable of being selfish.
I can definitely see him trying to hold onto something from One For All…
The reason that AFO’s “soul” was finally shattered is that the idea that Yoichi was truly gone left him with nothing else… AFO no longer cared about ruling over others, finding it pointless without him.
If there is even the smallest bit of OFA left, I can very much see AFO coming back again (😭) I genuinely think that he wouldn’t give up if there was even an ember of Yoichi left…
All For One definitely will not be getting any sort of redemption by the end of the series, but I do think that he will possibly get some sort of closure for Yoichi's death... which will be what finally stops the cycle.
[End of meta, beginning of rant:]
If there is nothing more after this, that was probably the worst conclusion to a plot line that we have ever had in the entire series.
I am of the firm belief that what happened this chapter would've been fine (minus, Tomura's possible conclusion) if it had been spaced out between even 2-3 chapters instead of a single one. It felt rushed and this "climax" fell flat.
I don’t think that Tenko is dead (or at least will stay dead) but the idea that that was the conclusion of the OFA/AFO plotline is making me feel insane.
There is so much important shit that still needs to be resolved, and the idea that it's gonna happen AFTER the climax in some post-war bullshit is also making me feel just a little bit crazy. ngl.
It's all just gonna feel so anticlimactic. Unless something changes drastically in the next chapter, I just know the ending will be disappointing on some level if things stay as they currently are…
(Even if this is not the conclusion of the OFA/AFO plotline, this chapter could do so much possible damage if things are not handled properly, I really don’t know if whatever is being planned next could even fully salvage it…)
Izuku’s actions:
I’ll be honest, I’m not particularly surprised with how Izuku acted this chapter. His view of Tomura has always been flawed, and that had been shown time and time again throughout this battle…
(I’m working on a longer post about this. It’s been something that I have kept to myself for a while now, and I think now is a good time to post my thoughts on it.)
Izuku never wanted to save Shigaraki Tomura, he wanted to save Shimura Tenko.
I think that this chapter perfectly displayed that particular flaw to readers… I really don’t think that this is the result of poor writing, but was a flaw purposefully given to Izuku.
(A flaw that he has yet to overcome… I do hope that this will be something that is resolved by the end of the series.)
The Fandom Response:
I’m seeing a lot of people say things like “Tenko can rest now.” or “Well, I guess Tenko’s heart was saved in the end.” when that is simply not true.
Tomura did not have any sort of revelation about AFO’s grooming. He still believed that he was born to destroy, that did not change in the slightest.
Tomura did not get any closure for the death of his family. He practically learns that he and his family were doomed from the start, and then just accepted it.
Tomura did not die “happy” or even at peace.
The idea that the only way for Tomura to be stopped was for him to be killed is just simply not true. He literally gave up a few chapters prior. It’s not like he was “too far gone” or on a rampage and needed to be put down.
…I have a lot more thoughts on this chapter that I won’t be sharing (yet) but I just can’t accept that it ends there. I cannot accept the idea that the main plotline of the series was so horrifically fumbled after all this time.
If Tomura truly died like that, it quite literally threw out 5+ years of development.
Tomura was humanized over and over again. For nothing?
It all just seems very… cruel.
#yea to all of this#mha 423#the bit about cycles breaking is especially true like.#‘’ending the cycle’’ through the death of afo AND tenko implies that they were the root of all evil instead of a byproduct of human apathy#this was why I had a lot of reservations about Tenko killing AFO bc I knew it would just perpetuate the cycle—#— & the fact that the chapter cheerily goes ‘right you are sophie!’ & has Tenko still believing he exists to destroy is so 😭#genuinely it’s a miserable ending if Hori does end up playing everytning straight#all we can do now is hope that this chapter was actually a set up for something more
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Endeavor: “All Might, explain why you made me ruin the lives of every member of my family!”
Or more like “how dare you not be the impossible ideal of perfect heroism for me to overcome at all times All Might!”
Parasocial relationships are a big deal in BNHA, but Endeavor might have the strangest one of all. He married, had four children, and destroyed his own life as well as his family’s lives over a “rivalry” that wasn’t even noticed by the other party.
And All Might wasn't fulfilling his side of their nonexistent relationship anymore by *checks notes* having human weaknesses.
Now that the ideal he was chasing no longer exists, Endeavor could no longer avoid looking at everything around him up in flames. And of course his initial response was to blame All Might.
It's also weird that Touya wasn't shown here along with Rei and Shouto. It would make sense not to show his face since his identity was a spoiler. But some vague fire on a mountaintop would have been sufficient. Because this panel makes it seem as though Endeavor doesn't think of him at all.
#my hero academia#I’m wondering if Hori hadn’t decided on the specifics of Touya’s death quite yet (tho the burn elements indicate he had an idea)#kind of like how details regarding the shimurafam deaths change between the mall and mva?#anyway as much as I dislike Enji I do like what he brings to the plot#like you said he’s the shining example of a parasocial relationship gone horrifically wrong
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and you may ask yourself. is anybody gonna match my freak
#afomight#the fact that toshi out-freaked him in the end and afo was legit put off by it is still the funniest part of the final arc lmao#everyone's a badass until yagi toshinori calls you his best friend and then immediately sets off a nuke in your face
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Like, I do think there's a legitimate conversation to be had about Tenko's relationship with quirks and how the "bestowing" of quirks relates to him specifically + how it's inherently tied to the repeat violation of his bodily autonomy/individuality -> how the OFA transfer plot ultimately wasn't handled with any sensitivity in regard to this aspect of Tenko's character specifically (especially considering chapter 423 confirms that transferring OFA is what ultimately caused Tenko's body to break/die, which is where the bulk of my personal frustration re: the OFA transfer plot is coming from).
People somehow conflating this with the OFAFO pregnancy subtext and using that to turn the OFA transfer chapters into allegory for SA + paint Izuku as a r*pist is like... intensely irresponsible + insensitive and has made it that much more difficult for the fandom to have an actual discussion about how this aspect of the story was handled.
Cutting away the needless fat and getting to the root of the issue, my questions are ultimately: "Was the OFA transfer plot handled well?" "Was it handled with sensitivity towards Tenko's character considering Tenko's background with quirks?" "Does OFA being the catalyst that ultimately destroyed Tenko's body stay true to the theme of the series and Izuku's goals?". I feel like that should have been the starting point for this conversation and not. You know. 😬
I know shonen is gonna shonen, but there are several ways the OFA transfer plot could have been handled that would have been more in tune with Izuku's heroic core and respectful of Tenko's history, while also staying a bit more true to the themes of the series. Which is to say, this is another reason why i'm desperately hoping Hori doubles back around and returns to the ''OFA is a power meant to save not kill'' theme and reveals that something about the transfer did in fact fulfill the requirements needed to save Tenko's life.
the current discourse of mhatwt is accusing deku of abuse, SA, and murder. in case anyone is wondering what kind of psychic damage horikoshi has unleashed upon bnha readers with mha 423.
#sexual assault mention#ask to tag#sophie.txt#mha 423#like it's also the fact that AFO forcing quirks on others to is treated as intensely negative but forcing OFA onto someone--#--is treated as positive/heroic. It's another thing that makes me go “HM." because while context is indeed important--#--the overall execution still comes off as extremely sloppy?#like I feel like he might have been trying to portray Izuku as a heroic foil to AFO (who only transferred quirks for his own gain)#but it falls flat because of Tenko's personal background with quirks and the fact that it ends up breaking his body#idk I need more time to think about it and dissect everything that's happened over the past dozen chapters 😓
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And here i thought the worst thing izuku could've done was reject toshinoris bento...welp
😔
i'm still in ''ha ha please say psych'' mode abt this chapter but now that i'm calmer... it really does feel like Hori changed mha's definition of what it means to ''save'' from "going above and beyond to give someone a future where they can finally smile/heal and creating a new starting line for them" to something decidedly less impressive and less radical once that concept started extending to the villains-- and since Izuku's arc was so heavily built around his core desire to save, he's unfortunately the biggest casualty of this switch up.
We go from Izuku attempting to attack AFO to save Tenko when he sees him getting swallowed up during the PLW to….... Izuku just wanting Tenko to acknowledge that he's a crying boy deep down and that he's human like everyone else. And Tenko's heart is somehow saved and his hatred destroyed by acknowledging this. Izuku never actually delves deep enough to really reach the roots of Tenko's dehumanization and all of the factors that contribute to it, so the idea that Tenko's heart was somehow saved ultimately feels unearned. AFO also more or less gets cleanly removed from the equation and his role in Tenko's dehumanization, so that we don't have to spare any time thinking about the implications behind Tenko's birth and can just double down on treating AFO as a punching bag until the bitter end (to say nothing about how the circumstances of AFO's own birth and how his treatment is ultimately a big example of mha failing to follow through with its themes--bc as much as people might hate AFO, we also have to acknowledge that the way the heroes and Izuku viewed him is something that directly contributed to Tenko's death).
I agree that Izuku returning agency to victims is his best trait and that Tenko ultimately had to "take the first step" in order to be saved, but....... idk, in Tenko's case this "answer" to the difficult question on how you save someone that society feels is "too far gone" just leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. He was literally never given a chance to be anything else. There's not a single second of his life where he was ultimately free from his abuser. I'm praying with every ounce of my being that this "death" is ultimately just the death of his villain persona and that the next chapter is Tenko Shimura: Rising.
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Could it be that Izuku thinking that in 420, was him trying to understand how smashing Tenkos spirit/vestige didn't affect AFO?? As in, Izuku was sure they were connect, so if one disappears the other should too. So when Tenkos spirit crumbles because of AFOs trump card, why didn't AFOs vestige leave too? (Although that still doesn't erase Izukus' ooc behavior.. and lack of total concern or intention to apparently save Tenko.) Then again, he did keep punching away at Tenkos body, so even if he only wanted to hit AFO, Tenko (or at least his body) was also getting hit. The only thing I can think of that paints Izuku in a slightly better light would be if he truly thought Tenko was gone and it was just an empty shell being used by AFO. But then he still didn't react at all during their dialogue.... or after seeing Tenkos vestige crumble away
Yeah, it's frustrating because I feel we just aren't getting enough insight into Izuku's personal thoughts and feelings to truly gauge what's going through his head and get a good sense of what his intentions were for this stretch of the story (420-423). There's just not enough focus on Izuku himself to point the readers towards any one conclusion, even though these chapters have ironically been all about Izuku and the mark he's made on the world.
Like... a lot of the chapters leading up to the climax of Izuku/Tenko's fight (417-419) involve the vestiges interjecting to narrate Izuku's thoughts/feelings/actions which... while I do like the vestiges, I feel like they ultimately took something away from Izuku and Tenko's fight and made it feel less intimate (for lack of a better word).
And because there's such focus placed on the vestiges and their reactions/dialog/conversations, it lends to the impression that Izuku himself has made very little effort to actually communicate with Tenko during their fight ("But Tenko was trying to kill him and wasn't interested in talking" like, fair enough, but this argument only goes so far when you compare Izuku and Tenko's fight to the fights between Ochako/Himiko + Shouto/Touya + Shouji/Spinner-- Ochako, Shouto, and Shouji both spend most of their fight trying to talk their villains down and don't give up on communicating even when their villains shout them down and attack them). Before 417-419, I believe all of Izuku's direct dialog to Tenko amounts to three lines: "I won't let you do that, but I won't ignore the you that was crying either" and "It's all connected, somewhere within you is a person" and "I already told you, I won't give up on that crying boy"-- which are all fantastic lines! But ultimately, I think the fans are justified in having wanted more from their fight. These are also lines that Izuku says in response to Tenko's statements-- they aren't Izuku attempting to initiate a conversation for himself.
Ultimately, 417-419 feel like the only truly intimate chapters between Izuku/Tenko, and these are the chapters where they both just start to finally understand each other-- only for things to immediately get cut short by AFO. Their arc feels painfully incomplete as a result.
Anyway, I'm still 100% convinced the chapter would have landed a helluva lot better with more introspection and focus on Izuku's feelings/reactions to Tenko specifically-- people would still (quite rightfully) be upset with Tenko's potential death, but like, I think there would be more willingness to approach this chapter as a potential fake out and more willingness to give the series the benefit of the doubt (of course if it's not a fake out I'll just evaporate myself lol).
Usually Horikoshi is excellent when it comes to utilizing composition + paneling + symbolism to convey the hidden emotions/hesitation of his characters (chapter 270 my beloved), which only adds to the disappointment. I'm hoping for some volume fixes, and I don't know if there might be something going on behind the scenes (like, if there's maybe a chapter limit that's restricting him because he only has enough story for one more volume and needs to condense things???). But for now, I'll just pray that the next chapter salvages things, even if it can't completely fix the damage 423 has done.
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I've been sexualizing AFO to cope with how upsetting the chapter was :(
Worshiping his body like an altar is what he would have wanted I think.
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you don't have to respond to this if you don't want to, but--I saw you mentioning you felt stupid earlier and I'm going through the same feelings myself but I just wanted to say that your analysis of my hero academia was genuinely the best I'd ever seen after following the comic for almost an entire decade(I've been here since almost the beginning...). it's not your fault if the writing took a bizarre turn, you were correctly recognizing things about the story that was presented to you and I've really appreciated your presence ever since the first time I read one of your posts.
Thank you for your kind words, they really helped me feel better. I always enjoy reading your thoughts as well, so I hope you are able to feel better soon as well.
At any rate, I think I'm a bit calmer now-- At the risk of setting myself up for more heartbreak in two weeks, I really think there's no way for it not to be a fake out because Tenko dying sincerely is a failure on every level for so-so-so many characters and the story as a whole. Izuku wanted to redefine OFA as a power meant for saving not killing, yet OFA ends up killing Tenko anyway? We get a scene where the main villain literally mocks Tenko for having never been his own person and commands him to disappear, and he does?? Nana ultimately fails to save her family from AFO a third and final time??? The Yoichi expy is ultimately forced to die while tethered to his abuser and is never allowed to truly escape or live a life outside of AFO???? Spinner pushes himself to his absolute limit and Kurogiri sacrifices himself because they both want to save Tenko, and it ends up being all for nothing????? Toshinori never gets any resolution with his beloved mentor's sole remaining family and has to live with the pain of once again failing to save her legacy?????? Tenko wants to become a hero to the villains, to the LOV specifically, but dies while all of them are literally hanging on by a thread at this time???????? Gran Torino was right??????????? There's bittersweet endings and there's bleak endings, and this is absolutely bleak if true.
Like, I know death and rebirth are huge themes in MHA-- but this is a case where the overall build up and execution of the chapter has left much to be desired. Still, the fact that Tenko says the name "Shigaraki Tomura" in quotation marks in the raw text does lend to the idea that this is actually the death of his villain persona rather than the death of the individual-- my other big concern rn is how Tenko's rebirth will ultimately be executed, since he still asks Izuku to pass a message along to Spinner on his behalf. Like..... a resurrection that has him losing his memories of his life as Tomura, or reverting back to his young "untraumatized" self, obviously feels wrong for entirely different reasons-- but this is just speculation atp and I don't wanna get worked up over smthing that hasn't happened yet.
Tenko's ""death"" also shares explicit parallels to both Toshinori's and Katsuki's brushes with death, so I do think Hrkshi could make things come full circle in a satisfying way here-- if Tenko's death is the only one that actually sticks while the heroes are allowed to defy all odds and resurrect/be reborn as the best possible versions of themselves, then obviously there's no salvaging the story. But I wanna have faith.
(Side note: Tenko/Toshi/Katsuki's (and even Touya's) limbo scenes depict them as surrounded by light and "sharing" that infinite space with someone who sincerely wants them to live-- and these scenes are starkly contrasted with AFO's limbo scenes, where his moments before death all depict as him being surrounded by darkness while being mocked by the vestiges of his victims.)
Anyway!!! At my own peril, I'll be leaning hard into the "Tenko Shimura: Rising + quirk awakening + aura!might using his vestige and the remnants of OFA to fill in the gaps of the broken reconstruction quirk (thereby fulfilling Izuku's wish to turn OFA into a power that exists to save while also helping Tenko symbolically embrace that he has the power to do more than just destroy-- he can save the villains through creation, not destruction)" theories from this point forward.
#Hopefully everyone else will also feel a little better with time#if anything I'm kind of?? happy that so many people are dissatisfied and demanding better for tomura/tenko#i feel like the general fandom's reception to him respawing will be less divisive this way (/delusional)#sophie.txt#mha spoilers#ty for the ask!!!
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At any rate, I have to go to work soon, so I'll try to answer any asks re: this chapter once my shift is done. TY for your patience....
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Thinking I've finally calmed down enough to make a rational assessment of 423 and discuss what I actually liked, only to start thinking about how AFO forcing the stockpiling quirk on Yoichi was (rightfully) treated as a horrific violation by the narrative while Izuku forcing OFA onto Tomura (which kills him) doesn't get the same level of condemnation by the narrative Because Of Reasons.
I'm gonna be on my bullshit for a least another day I think.
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i think kabru should be allowed to infodump on laios. equality
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reading the MHA 423 officials…..
#>''tell spinner this'' said like spinner's brain isn't quirked up soup rn my boy has fallen well past the capacity for language 😭#(like?? if spinner is supposed 2 get parting words they at least gotta be able to undo the quirk overload so he can comprehend speech again#(right? ........ right????)#mha spoilers
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Okay, so. Um. Chapter 423.
Seeing people's reactions I have to say some things. And let me preface this by saying that I don't believe this is truly it. But.
The issue isn't even that Izuku (seemingly) failed to save the person he wanted to save from AFO (well, it is an issue, actually, but not the main point. Also, the fact that his and vestiges' plan to reach Tenko is also what ensured Tomura's death is just so... ), and it's not that he's weirdly distant and cold in this chapter.
It's the fact that not a single one of them actually acknowledged anything that they saw and heard in Shigaraki's mind. Neither of them talked about what AFO told Tomura - the fact that Tomura didn't say anything about what he learned about his quirk, his purpose and the fact that he never truly wanted to kill his family is especially mind-boggling. And Deku didn't say anything about the revelation that Tomura never really had a chance or a choice from the very start either. There was no self-relfection on either side, no real conversation, and there also was no real understanding between the two being reached. It's the fact that Deku instantly stopped caring or wondering about Tenko/Tomura the moment AFO came back, being completely willing to pulverise his body when just a few chapters ago he refused to do that when Nana told him to. It's the fact that he didn't react to Kurogiri pleading for Tomura and Bakugou just killed (???? maybe not, it's hard to understand) the man. It's the fact that the vestiges still being alive and Nana saving Tomura (oh hey, guess her whole family actually all died to AFO, unable to truly smile) was off-screened.
This is not people blaming Izuku. This is just people complaining about straight up bad writing.
Even if Tenko is still alive (And Kurogiri wasn't killed by Bakugou too, but I feel like Kurogiri is just too doomed to survive anyway), that doesn't erase the weirdness that this chapter was. It would still be salvageable, I guess, depending on what happens next, but good lord, the damage was certainly done.
And if Tenko is really dead, but we'll just see more of Midoriya's reaction to that in the following chapters, this would still be fucking horrible.
I love Deku. I love his emotions, how genuine he is, how empathetic he is. He is just a kid forced into an awful situation. This is not a jab at him as much as it is a jab at the author and the writing here. Because how in the world does the protagonist fail at doing what he wanted to do harder than the supporting cast with their villains? Why was Toga and Uraraka's final chapter more genuine and emotional that THIS - the protagonist and the main antagonist's last conversation????? Why was Ochako more upset about realising that Toga is about to kill herself than Deku was in those chapters?
#mha spoilers#exactly like i never would've imagined izuku's character would end up being the one to go completely off the rails#while almost all of the other arcs got treated with such care#like compare himiko's (hopefully) fake out death & Ochako's reaction with this one. the difference is like night and day. 💀#my one thought is that Izuku technically hasn't saved with a smile like he wanted to so I'm still praying for something more but#idk at this point#tenko's true dream being to become a hero to the villains makes me desperate for overhaul quirk awakening shenanigans--#--bc I feel like him saving touya/himiko/spinner with reconstruction would be a good way to complete his arc#but who knows what to expect at this point
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my home isn't my home anymore, something's gone wrong along the way
noor hindi dear god. dear bones. dear yellow.: "pledging alliegance" (via @feral-ballad) \\ andrew collins \\ athena nassar, from love is not always song, but the swelling (via @weltenwellen) \\ @holly-warbs \\ yanyi dream of the divided field: poems: "the friend” (via @dactylicreveries) \\ bartosz beda silent interior ii
kofi
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