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between-two-fandoms · 4 years

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Who We Used To Be (Ray/Rose/Trevor)

As told by myself and @thesevenumbrellas tag teaming the whump in the 18+ JatP discord. Sev I swear we operate on the same braincell levels, we do be clowning. @bobbywilsonsupremacy let us know what you think of this! I know you and I both hardcore ship Raybse.

Cover was created by @thesevenumbrellas. Please don’t steal it.

This post got long so fair warning.

We wrote this in a discord server over the time span of hours so there’s some mistakes but i’m too lazy to go back and fix it all. Basically we tag teamed on a Raybse Trevor Wilson-centric whump story and can destroy a fandom with a single touch.

You’ll understand once you click the cut.

Don’t Steal Our Writing (but please reblog this to spread it around).

Trauma Time.

major whump warning

(Ren) Okay so if we're gonna be starting at 90's ot3 my children ray/bobby/Rose know that Ray is a panic bi and loves both of these humans very much with his whole ass heart.

(Ren) He takes pictures of his girlfriend and boyfriend while they’re on dates because he wants to capture the moments he was happy the most. Bobby always shed away from the camera burying his face in Rose's shoulder or leaning in for a kiss. Anyways as time goes by Ray notices Bobby's change in behavior. From being his go-happy-trauma boyf to being caught up in the music scene, often out at all hours to parties and label meetings only to come to to sleep on the couch, not even sharing the bed like he used to. It reminds Ray of the time when Bobby was grieving his boys. Ray hates it, but he loves bobby so he pushes his feelings aside to try and arrange more dates for the three of them to go on together.

(Sev) Ray waking up to only Rose in the bed and not Bobby, and it feels too cold in bed without him. So he'll try to call him, because it's 3am and he's supposed to be home and he's not. And Ray remembers what happened to Bobby's bandmates, and he can't admit it out loud but he's worried. Because what if that happens to Bobby? He knows it was a freak accident! What are the odds of it happening again?? But he can't shake that feeling when Bobby doesn't come home at night and Ray stays up all night worrying. Anyway he tries to call Bobby and Bobby doesn't answer. He'll leave loads of voicemails, trying not to be pushy because he knows Bobby doesn't respond well to that. But he's worried. He'll say "hey please call me when you get this." and then ten minutes later try again "hey just text me that you're safe okay?" He can't sleep because Bobby still isn't home. It's 5am. He has to go to work in two hours. Rose keeps telling him to go to bed but he can't.[2:58 PM]Bobby finally texts back. "I'm okay! Was playing with some friends, the gig went over time and then we went to party." Ray wants to be angry because seriously? No phone calls because he was at a party? But he knows that'll just push Bobby away more!

(Ren) And so Ray has all of these festering emotions that boil down to worry and concern at the core but he's just so scared hes losing Bobby cause he never really had his own family to begin with and then one day when Ray comes home early from a photoshoot he can hear Bobby and Rose fighting over Bobby signing the contract that says he wrote Luke's songs but Ray just hears yelling before he even opens the door with his name thrown into the mix and then he gets even more scared because what if he loses Rose and Bobby? if he lost both of them he'd be destroyed. So he doesnt knock. He doesnt go home. Instead he walks around the city until he was supposed to go home originally and he opens the door and there's a sort of eerie silence in the air.

(Sev) Trevor’s unable to shake the feeling that something terrible will happen to Rose and Ray because he's with them. His entire family were killed in 1 night because he wasn't there with them. So at first he's clingy as fuck to Rose and Ray because what if something bad happens when he's not there? What if what if what if... But as time goes on the thinking flips. Maybe it's the music industry that's the problem. It's these weird connections in his head of if he's too successful, bad things might happen. But he can't quit music like that, he can't give up on Luke's dream. He owes his boys to become successful. So instead he distances himself from Rose and Ray. That way they won't be caught up in whatever bad thing is going to happen to him. He distances himself and he waits for it all to drop. He waits for the universe to punish him again.

(Ren) And the universe punishes Bobby when the tension between him and Rose tightens so much he knows there's no going back from it but he's not admitting to stealing the songs because he didn't. He helped Luke write all of the songs more than Alex and Reggie ever did, staying up late with Luke after fights with his mom and Bobby didn’t want Luke to be alone so yeah, he wrote the songs. Maybe not as much as he claimed but he sure as hell made sure his brother wasn’t alone so that counted for something right? And it did. Until Rose kicks him out of bed because she's pissed he'd even consider stealing music and he cant tell Ray because of the NDA the label got him to sign at a party when he was drunk and the only reason Rose knows about it is because she was there when he signed the damn thing and so Bobby pulls away from Ray because isnt it going to be easier in the long run? If he doesn’t attach himself to Ray who'll just get angry at him like Rose did?

(Sev) It's the guilt that grows inside of him every passing day. They're my songs too he tells himself over and over again. But during the dark nights, three glasses of whisky in when the world is getting hazy... even he can't believe the lies he tells himself. He fucked up Sunset Curve. He fucked up his friends' memories. And now he fucked up the only good thing he'd ever had. Ray texts him nonstop. He doesn't understand why Rose kicked Bobby out and he doesn't understand why Bobby listened. Bobby can't take Ray away from Rose. He's fucked up and a terrible person, but even he can't do that. He doesn't give Ray his new address. He refuses to meet up even for Ray to give him his stuff back. All Bobby can do is hold onto Ray's sweatshirt he stole away and a bottle of perfume the same brand Rose always wears. He cradles these things in his arms and cries.

(Ren) And that's the last he sees of Ray for all of 5 years, 20yr old puppy-dog eyed loving precious ray who Bobby would run to the second Rose says its okay. But rose never does. And then Bobby meets a cute blonde and six months later the barista shows up on his doorstep shoving Carrie into his arms calling her a bastard child. Carrie is not a bastard child Carrie is his and he loves her the second he sets eyes on her and so Bobby turns into Trevor when the new year rolls around and he starts his own album. It doesn’t do as well as Luke's his first album did but it was his. And then one day Trevor signs Carrie up for dance because Trisha from first grade made fun of her for not being able to do the splits and on the way out of the dance studio Trevor bumps into Ray, a terrified looking girl clutched to his leg. Carrie doesn't miss a beat. "Hi! I'm Carrie let's be friends!" and Carrie drags Ray's daughter off and Trevor shifts awkwardly and is suddenly 17 again but Ray's eyes still twinkle like the did when they were kids and he's still wearing eyeliner so Trevor almost missed it when a flicker of recognition crosses Ray’s face and a smile quirks at the corners of his lips and he says, "hi im Ray, thats my daughter Julie. Wanna go out for a drink?" With that same mischievous glint in his eye that made Bobby fall in love with him in the first place.

(Sev) Trevor almost stops breathing. He should say no. He knows he should say no. He's an awful person. He doesn't deserve someone like Ray. He never deserved either of them. He knows that. But can't force himself to say no. Maybe it's the twinkle in Ray's eyes. Maybe it's the soul crushing loneliness he's felt ever since he left them. Or maybe it's the way Carrie and Julie are giggling in the corner like they've known each other all their lives. He says yes. The drink ends up at a family friendly restaurant with both the girls in tow.

(Ren) Rose shows up because Ray the asshole apparently texted her while he was in the car saying he met one of Julie's friend's parents and wanted to go out on a date (keeping things pg ofc) aklsdf. And when Rose does show up Trevor sees how... sick she looks. How much paler she looked than she did all those years ago how - he still knew he loved her even if she still decided she hated him.

(Sev) The mood drops quickly. Trevor wants to ask about Rose, but not in front of the kids. Ray wants to ask about their past, but not in front of the kids. Rose... Rose who holds all the answers... doesn't know where to start first. She had never regretted not telling Ray the truth. She never wanted to change Ray's perception of Bobby like that. Ray who looked at their boyfriend as if he'd hung the moon. Ray who stayed up worrying all night until Bobby came home. Ray who held Bobby through countless nightmares... But that makes the truth staring them in the face so much harder. Because she never gave Ray the choice. She realized that a few years too late after she catches Ray staring at old pictures of Bobby in their photo albums. She'd made the choice for him. And then there's Trevor... still beautiful, staring at her with so much concern her heart breaks all over again.

(Ren) The tension doesn't fly over Carrie's head like he hoped it would, she talks to Julie about My Little Pony and Pokemon and High School Musical and their mutual hatred for Trisha from school but Carrie's hand never lets go of his and he finally plucks up the courage and stretches his arm out and says "we're vegetarian for the most part, hope that's okay." And a smile quirks at the corner of her lips and she asks "for the most part?" and Trevor nods and Carrie pipes up from her seat saying "daddy hates hot dogs,” in that blatant fact kind of way kids say things without realizing how problematic it could be. It wasn’t her fault though, Trevor has yet to tell her about her uncles, about how he was in a band, about how they were going to be legends.

(Sev) Rose and Ray both freeze at Carrie's voice. He doesn't know if the girls notice, because he's too busy trying to fight back the panic in his throat. It's been a long time since anyone had brought up ... what happened. It's easy to pretend it didn't happen when his name is Trevor and no one knows him. But these two people know him. They know him more than anyone else ever has. Even the boys. The truth hits him hard at that moment. A truth he'd been avoiding for almost two decades. Ray and Rose know him better than even he knew himself. Maybe that was why Rose had been so furious with him, or why Ray continued to chase after him even months after he moved out. Trevor hides the building panic and sudden realization with a smile. "What an I say," he said as causally as he can. "I'm a picky eater." A few hours later they end up back at the Molina's house. Bobby has no idea how it happened. -No, Trevor has no idea how it happened, he scolds himself. He's Trevor. He has to be Trevor. Trevor got him this far, Trevor made the difficult choices. Bobby was the one who got his friends kill and destroyed the best relationship he ever had. Still, it becomes harder and harder to remind himself of that. To stop himself from slipping into the comfortable shoes of Bobby, boyfriend of Ray and Rose as if the past 17 years had never happened. He finds himself on their sofa, a sofa that brings back memories both good and bad... he finds himself in a familiar home, his old studio just a short walk away, his ex's giggling in the kitchen as they make his coffee the way he's always liked it without asking for a reminder.

(Ren) Trevor can remember the day he stopped drinking the coffee Ray made for him, the morning after his first fight with Rose, when he wakes up cold because Rose basically cocooned herself around Ray's body, keeping her back turned to him and as much as he wanted to reach out to Ray, to hug him and comfort him and tell him it was all going to be okay... everything was too stuffy and too tense and deciding he just had to leave because he was going to suffocate otherwise.

(Sev) He should leave, just like last time. What was he even doing here? He should take Carrie and- Then Ray's in front of him, pushing a hot cup into is hands. "The girls are playing upstairs," he says. His voice is so calm, so understanding. "We don't have to talk if you don't want to." Trevor almost laughs. Because that's so like Ray. Almost a decade without answers and he's giving Trevor the option to ignore it all. To pretend like nothing ever happened. But he can't be that selfish again. So he shakes his head. "I'd... like to talk to you... to both of you."

(Ren) And then suddenly rose is eyeing him sus but he's been putting this off for to long and honestly fuck his label because they screwed him over one too many times for him to still even consider their relationship anything other than employee-client1[4:06 PM]and so Trevor takes a sip of Ray's coffee holy shit how did go so long without it?! and he explains it. he explains everything.

(Sev) Ray doesn't speak as Trevor explains. He never interrupts or even look surprised. His face is completely unreadable. He doesn't move until Trevor's done. And then once he is, he only stands up to start pacing the room. Trevor's oddly reminded of Alex as he does so, and the memory is enough to make him flinch. "This... this is what you two have been hiding from me for so long?" he asked, voice brittle. "This is... this is what cost us... I mean..." But he can't finish. Ray just shakes his head, back to both Rose and Trevor.

(Ren) Suddenly he's seventeen again. Seventeen and a mess in Ray's arms burying his face into the man's chest finally feeling the weight of the world lift off of his shoulders and suddenly Rose is hugging him from behind, her too-skiny bone arms snaking around his chest and hugging him tightly threatening to never let him go saying "amour," and pressing a kiss to the back of his head, "amour we never stopped loving you."

(Sev)It's like no time has passed by the time he's done crying his eyes out. They're all huddled on a sofa that was always too small for three. Trevor's in the middle, clutching at them both as if they're going to disappear on him. Ray sits with his legs underneath them, his arms pulling the both of them into his chest. And then there's Rose, suddenly so much more delicate than Trevor remembers. She sits half on his lap, curled into them, her fingers knotted in his hair. "I can't believe you two kept this from me," Ray whispers. There's no anger. He doesn't think Ray's ever been capable of being angry. "I'm sorry," Trevor whispers, throat raw from tears. Ray answers with a firm kiss to his temple. "We wasted so much time..."

(Ren) Trevor just lays between them in their bed, nothing sexual and nothing tense it’s just them being together and Rose playing with his now-long hair, braiding it right down the middle despite it being too long for others to braid. Her fingers feel nice as they tug at his roots, familiar and a sense of calm washes over him. He lets ray fop on top of him like they used to, burying his head in his chest just listening to his heart beat, his steady constant breathing because Ray used to be afraid one day he'd wake up and Bobby would be dead too. Rose humming lightly, soft lullabies that chased away dark thoughts and Trevor just finds it so comforting, a feeling of home he hasn't had since the day he left and so he wraps his arms around Rose and Ray tight, promising himself he won't screw up his second time around.

(Sev) It's a few hours later when he speaks again. The girls are asleep in Julie's room (delighted at their surprise sleepover.) Ray's almost nodded off, head resting against Trevor's chest. But Rose is wide awake. She's laid out, tangled between them, eyes focused on something far away. He can see it more clearly now. The tremble in her hands, the way she's so still, the circles around her eyes. He takes her hand in his. "What is it?"

(Ren) And Trevor wants it to be a prank, he wants the sinking feeling in his gut twisting around his heart, the same feeling he had the morning of Sunset Curve's Orpheum performance coiling up his spine to go away. He wants everything to be okay, that he told the truth, that he was forgiven, that the universe was finally on his side for once but of course it's not because when has it ever been. Rose's fingers run lightly over his knuckles and Ray wraps his arm around him from behind, his hands resting against Trevor's chest, something solid for him to focus on and as a tear starts to roll down Rose's cheek he reaches up to brush it away, running his hand through her hair only to pull out a clump as he pulled away but he couldn't run when his instincts to run kick in like they always used to do when situations turned emotional, bury it in his mind and lock up his worries like he always did but this wasn't going to be something he could run from.

(Sev) Life is not the fantasy or a fairy tale. There are no happy endings, only happy moments. He'd like to say they picked up right where they left off, Rose lived until a ripe old age, and they never fought again. But he'd be lying. It was hard to fold their lives back into place again, especially with Carrie and Julie. To just pick up after their seventeen year old selves was an impossible dream. But they could do breakfast. And breakfast became dinner. Dinner became one date which became two which became many. It took trouble and care, but they slotted themselves back into each other's lives again. There were lunch dates, and movie nights. There were late night wine dates and early morning coffee dates. They found their happy moments. A decade of separation had smoothed out the rough edges. If Trevor stormed out after a harsh argument, he'd return the next day with flowers and apologies. If Rose snapped and lost her temper, she'd take herself off for a walk to cool down. If Ray was bothered by something, he'd speak up instead of pushing it all down. They found their happy moments. And when 1 month became 1 year, they celebrated with moving boxes and a new, bigger couch. When 1 year became 2, they celebrated with promise rings and whispers of a better future between light kisses. 3 years became 4, became 5, and so on... They found their happy moments. But life is not a fantasy or a fairy tale. Their story ends in a hospital. Rose dies with both her husbands at her side, with both her daughters and son clutching on her hands. She dies with a smile on her face, knowing she is not leaving them to suffer alone. Ray and Trevor grieve together.

(Ren) And this time the girls are the ones who get into the fight but Trevor and Ray are there for Julie and Carrie no matter what they're fighting over carrie told julie she liked flynn but julie said flynn was hers first and doesnt understand how she can feel squishy love for two people. And this time the girls are the ones who get into the fight but Trevor and Ray are there for Julie and Carrie no matter what they're fighting over carrie told julie she liked flynn but julie said flynn was hers first and doesnt understand how she can feel squishy love for two people. They stick to their daughters through the worst of it but they don’t let the girl’s fighting rip into them too. It’s not what Rose would’ve wanted for them, it’s not what she would’ve wanted for Julie or Carrie either.

(Sev) And when Julie plays with her ghost band, it's much earlier that Trevor recognizes who she's playing with.

(Ren) Luke’s mad at first, ofc he is but after everything is explained and out in the open Trevor finds himself at home in a building that never felt like home despite the fact he grew up in it.

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blueluneacy · 4 years

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Personal Update

If you've been following me for a while, then you're probably used to this blog going through… Phases. I tend to have periods of high activity and low activity. It's a combination of both my mood and my schedule, but Recently, I discovered something that horrified me, my worst nightmare realized.

After staring at a page for over an hour, I realized I had burnout. I looked for other causes. Maybe I was tired, or sick, or just had writers block. I looked for legitimately any other cause, because the idea of not being able to write absolutely horrifies me. I've always been writing, always been a writer. It was a massive blow to me. I've always heard about burnout, but I thought, never me! Besides, I don't have the time to be lazy, all of you are waiting for my next post. If I don't post soon, people aren't going to care anymore. In a funny twist, I, the person who constantly preaches on how you need to write for yourself, was not doing that.

And it's not to say that I don't enjoy the requests I'm getting! Some of them can be very same, but I have the power to delete something already done! If I don't like it, I don't have to do it, right? Well, sorta. I've been forcing myself to do something… Weird. I've been making myself write requests in order of when I get them, as some sort of act of fairness. Which on the one hand, sounds fair, but on the other, has honestly made me hate some of my own ideas. I hate writing TA Jotaro now, because I'm constantly doing it, and I don't know why. I used to love the concept, hell, I came up with it! Is there something wrong with me? I don't know.

I started looking into cures for burnout, to try and get something, some pill so I could keep working. But, it doesn't work like that, unfortunately. The only way to cure burnout is… To change. To stop, take a break. But I took a short break before, and I'm still here, burnt out. Well, I never really solved the problem of before, I only prolonged the time it would take me to get here. I honestly don't know what to do other than wait. Even writing this feels agonizing to me for some reason. And it's not just jojo, either. I tried writing so much, from stuff with my ocs, other fandoms, even poetry, but nothing came out. I don't know what to do at this point other than wait it out, but that idea scares the heck out of me, if I'm not writing, what do I do?

For those who don't know, I work at a Bath and Body Works as well as go to school. My job isn't my passion, but it helps fund college and it's decent work. The people are weird, but that's not the point of my little anecdote. At work, part of what I do is sell candles. Massive, three wick scented candles, meant to last for over forty hours of continuous burning. But, I also do returns. About once a week, someone comes in and returns an empty candle container,all used up. While I think it's the stupidest thing, our return policy states that we have to take them, so take them I do, looking over the empty container, with metal prongs and char all along the sides. And God, I feel like those empty candle containers right now! And the problem is, at work, we throw them out. You get rid of them and get a new candle. But I can't just throw out my brain and get a new one. And writing is my outlet, my coping mechanism. I don't know what to do with myself when I'm not attempting to write.

A friend of mine told me to look at things from a different angle. To turn what I'm thinking on its head and work from there. So… I'm gonna try. I'm closing requests now, and I'm still going to attempt to work on them, but well… They'll get done eventually, I just don't know when. As for me working on my burn out… I'm going to try and work on something new. I want to finish Wrong with the Reaper, I want to write more Diavolo, I have so many ideas that I feel like could be interesting and outside my normal realm of what I do, and thinking about them does make me excited in this time where I honestly feel so… Dull.

They say burn out can manifest physically, in extreme exhaustion. I've been sleeping almost all the time when I'm not working, to the point where my dad asked if I needed to have a sleep study. In a way, this realization has made a lot of pieces in my head click.

The raffle is still gonna end at the same time. I'm gonna draw tomorrow still and make a post, and the raffle winnings are gonna take precedent over the requests, just because they're a prize and all. I'm hoping maybe these longer flics will help too, maybe I'll work more on prose or something.

If you want to interact with me, talk to me, or maybe see my wips (always lookin for proof readers lmao), join my discord server at https://discord.gg/gQEEVMf. While I'm still gonna check my inbox here, it's a much easier way to reach me and talk to me.

Thanks for reading. You guys mean so much more to mean than you could ever possibly know. In a way, my burnout has stemmed from my constant race of being up to my own standards, as well as trying to be something that uplifts your day in my writing. I don't know anymore. What I'm trying to say is, thank you all. I'm writing is at almost four a.m. when I couldn't sleep, and I'll probably post it when I wake up. I never thought anyone would like my writing, but people who I have considered fucking idols in the jojo writing section of tumblr have even complimented my work, and it just makes me so happy that people I adore like my work, but also terrified, horrified that I will sooner or later disappoint. But, I'm still alive, I'm still living, still going. And I know that if I keep going, eventually, I think I'll get through this.

#personal update #personal #not writing #requests closed

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anonymoustalks · 4 years

Conversation

The left has become absorbed by identity politics and is obsessed with race.. it scares me that they will create more racists than before they started

(6-17-20) You both like politics.

You: heyaa

Stranger: Hi

Stranger: How are you

You: anything you're interested in?

You: I am fine

Stranger: I'm interested in hearing opinions on things

You: oh, me too ^^

You: what kind of things?

Stranger: Politics is divisive, but in order to get a better understanding I wish to listen to both sides

You: awesome, I think that's great ^^

Stranger: :) thank you

You: do you have issues you care about most?

Stranger: The current fall of western society

You: fall of western society huh

You: can you elaborate more?

Stranger: Over the past few years we have seen western society devolve. Where once we were fairly united and we stood strong, we have become more divided and with the introduction of identity politics, that has just worsened till we have gotten to where we are now. China is currently pushing her borders, and yet with the US in flames and the uk following suit (along with France for that matter), noone challenges it

You: mhm *nodsnods*

Stranger: To speak out against the lunacy is to be called a racist and a bigot, not that that's anything new of course but those who are calling for these things seem to not really understand the importance and significance of their actions. I see this as akin to the 1920s Weimar Republic. They are pushing for things they don't want

You: you type a lot haha

Stranger: Sorry i am choosing my words carefully

You: mhm it's fine

You: so you think strong foreign policy is very important?

Stranger: I do. I am from South Africa, though I live in the uk. For those who live outside the us and Europe, we see the importance of Baro and the us on a geopolitical scale. China owns the east of Africa, if not central as well. The us has been the top dog preventing them and Russia from doing much for years, though that's going to change in the coming years

Stranger: NATO not baro* bloody autocorrect

You: oh okay I was wondering what that was haha

Stranger: If I may ask, where are you from?

You: the us actually

Stranger: I thought you might be given the time :) it's half 1 am here

You: yeah it's late!

You: so in your view, western countries need to have more of a spine?

You: is that basically what you're saying?

Stranger: Always. But history has a cycle.

Stranger: Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create hard times

You: very fair

You: speaking of cycles, I think something that is floating around these days

You: is whether it's sort of like the beginning of the end of american hegemony

You: sort of like UK's empire gradually had its sunset

Stranger: This is what I am concerned with. All empires have their time in the sun, and all shall fade. I had hoped I would be dead before it happened. I made a prediction several years ago that should trump win in 2020 again, there will be civil war. I am unsure on my prediction of civil war, but I can see that he will win. Should there not be war, I give it another 2 presidencies before yourselves will fall, and ww3 breaks out

You: hmm the us is steamy right now, but idk about civil war

Stranger: It's been brewing for a while now by my estimation

You: that said I would not be surprised about China continuing to be more aggressive

You: that stuff with India yesterday?

You: ^^

Stranger: Without strong willed opposition, they will always push more overtly. They have done so in the shadows for years now

Stranger: And that's just one example

Stranger: They have intruded on Thailand air space as well

You: I don't think either democrats or republicans are very foreign-policy aggressive right now though

You: idk if your concern will be that much better with biden

You: clinton was a little hawkish but she lost 2016

Stranger: It would be much worse with Biden, or anyone from the left EXCEPT Tulsi Gabbard

You: oh you sounded like you didn't want trump to win lol

Stranger: I don't like him. But honestly, he's the best option out of what has been shown. Bernie is a socialist, Hillary is a warmonger, Biden will probably be a puppet. Who can stand? Hillary could be strong, but you would go to war. For all his faults, Trump has avoided war and conflict. He brought North Korea to the discussion table.

You: okay ^^

Stranger: I may not like him but he is effective, and has been a boon to you economy though as someone who works in finance, the next crash is due soon

You: fair enough although I think a lot of places are hurt by the coronavirus economy anyways

Stranger: Yeah.. the lockdowns are odd.. why quarantine those who are healthy? We have always quarantined those who were I'll first, and then those who go out and riot get a free pass? It's a bit confusing, and is a little bit of double think. Rules don't apply to you if you have the correct opinions it would seem

You: idk the US never really had forced quarantines

You: everything here was just you were supposed to do it

Stranger: The uk did, apologies

Stranger: Well not heavily enforced near me

You: we had college students going to beaches even though the quarantine was happening

You: because young ppl think they are invincible

You: and dumb ^^

Stranger: Hahaha yeah you aren't wrong in that

Stranger: But I have waffled on, may I hear your opinions on what we have discussed?

You: mhm, I disagree but it's cool yo~

Stranger: No that's great, it shows that we can discuss and hopefully come to compromise

Stranger: Thank you for being chill and relaxed

You: mhm I'm basically a hippie though so I don't usually take strong stances on international intervention

Stranger: That's fair and understandable. I used to agree with that as well for many years

You: I kind of think it's a little bit of a selfish position to take (the peace one)

You: in the sense that I don't want to deal with other people's problems

You: so in a sense it's kinda selfish

Stranger: It is and it isn't :)

Stranger: It's a moral good and a difficult thing. Peace only exists as reprieve from war. Humanity is a war like species, and peace only ever exists between them. And I applaud your pacifism

You: idk I'm not sure if it's always something to applaud

You: I think in a sense it's a kind of inaction

Stranger: A good thought experiment for you then, look at ww2

You: yup

You: I'm familiar with isolationism in history and its ramifications

Stranger: The us was neutral officially for years, and because they took no strong stance, the Nazis rose to power. Admittedly it was partly the fault of all the allies and ww1 but that's a digression.

Stranger: But war was thrust upon them officially by what happened. The peaceful stance can be taken from you, but that is not a bad thing in my opinion

You: yup

Stranger: What would you do if you could, at that time?

You: at that time?

You: hmm

You: it's not a question I've thought very much about

Stranger: I thought on that myself

You: and what did you conclude?

Stranger: My answer was intervention. Stop the Anschluss, the Munich agreement, the extremely harsh measures of the treaty at the end of ww1

You: oh yeah that was a terrible treaty

You: I kind of imagined myself as an average person though haha

Stranger: But I understand the reasoning at the time for allowing all those things to go through

Stranger: I am too

You: you would have protested your government signing that treaty?

Stranger: That's why thay generation was called the greatest generation. We the average man stood up and took up arms, because they believed what was right.

Stranger: It is difficult to say that if I lived in that time I would. Of it was today, 100%

You: mhm... war is frightening

Stranger: We cannot judge the past with the same moral standing we have today

You: of course

Stranger: And yes, war really is a horrible thing

Stranger: If peace was an option, I would go for it. Often times though, we have no control over that

You: mhm there is suffering in a lot of places, and violence that arises from suffering and hatred

Stranger: Look at the Nazis and the hatred of the Jews. That was extremely common all across Europe, the uk and the us. Many leaders in politics and business liked the Nazis initially. But just because something is common, does not make it right

You: I actually never understood antisemitism

Stranger: You are quite wise, and I agree with you. But the sad thing is, there will always be suffering

You: or why people hate(d) jewish people

Stranger: The scary thing is, many of those in BLM look up to a man called Farrakhan (forgive me on the spelling) who is a huge antisemite. Like he openly calls for violence against them. He gets away with it, because he is black. Why he hates them I don't know. They are hated I think, because they are the oldest abrahamic religion and the oldest monothesist one as well, from which both Islam and Christianity draw their teachings from initially

You: I just don't understand why they are hated

You: often by christians too

Stranger: Me neither, I find it abhorrent. They have been persecuted for thousands of years

You: yeah idk I just don't understand why

Stranger: I have yet to find out why. I know in Islam they hate them as it is dictated within their scriptures, though the exact wording I am unsure on. Christians I would think it's because they don't believe that Jesus was the son of God

You: I guess so

Stranger: But I may be entirely wrong

Stranger: Which I probably am

You: idk I don't know anything so I have no clue

Stranger: Hence why I like and want discussion :) we learn more through communication

Stranger: We become better the more we communicate

You: is there a reason why you dislike blm so much?

Stranger: I stand against identitarianism

You: so basically all those "pride" movements?

Stranger: I come from a racist country that segregated everyone and everything based on the colour of everyone's skin and I was hated for being the colour of my skin just for being born. I cannot condone movements that wish to implement the same things, as it will lead to suffering and hatred.

Stranger: I have nothing against being proud of your race, though I think the idea is a bit stupid. I have an issue with everything needing to divided up based on the colour of ones skin, I choose to judge someone on the basis of their character. I'm not perfect and there are times where I have been prejudiced but it is something I am consious of and wish to not do

You: mhm okay

You: I'm not sure if blm wants things to be divided up based on race though

You: I thought they were mostly against police brutality

Stranger: Some very much so are. Though I will concede that not all of them are, and I should tar everyone with the same brush. But as a counter to that, look at CHAZ in Seattle, they have segregated farms though calling them that is hilarious

You: I thought chaz is just a city block?

Stranger: On the police brutality, I agree with them and that reform must happen. Abolishing police is not a good idea. More funding is required, better training and better internal policies and structures to vette and review the officers is needed. Abolishing them will lead to anarchy. You are correct that Chaz is, but it is a microcosm showing the very things I stand against. I am against racism of all kinds, segregation is a form of racism. The us had a history where they did it too and agreed that it was wrong

You: mhm

You: I just wasn't familiar with blm as pro-segregation

You: that said, most blm activists are just really young

Stranger: They have been co-opted by those who are. And many activists are young white kids

You: I don't think mainstream democrats take them very seriously

Stranger: I'm not so certain. But I hope I am wrong

You: idk I mean these days who knows what kind media we each read

You: so I'm sure I'm in a bubble too

Stranger: They may see these things as a good and helpful idea, but the road to hell is often paved with good intentions

Stranger: Of course, and I hope I'm wrong. I recommend a variety of news sources, especially independent ones. A great one is a guy named Tim Pool on YouTube. He is a left leaning centrist guy who is upfront with his leanings. But he gives the news as it is

You: mhm I try to avoid youtube news

You: although idk if it's truly reliable to always go through bbc or ap or others

You: they are just mainstream

Stranger: BBC is very biased in my opinion. Tim used to work on mainstream media but he left. I would call him credible, he looks at news sources and verifies them. He's very milk toast and fence sits allot the problem with news is that all sides want to spin things the way they want it

You: mhm okay

You: is there any kind of mainstream media that you like?

Stranger: I don't trust any of them when it comes to almost anything except weather and sport scores. I will listen to what is said from various sources before coming to my own conclusions. I have lost all faith in the media since 2016

You: I see, I guess it ends up being hard to find something to trust

Stranger: Unfortunately it is. My reasons for it was both the elections in the us for 2016 and the brexit vote here in the uk. I was very similar to you then, very much so a hippie and very left leaning. I disagreed with Trump and Brexit, but I lost. But the way the media and society within the left handled themselves and the situation, that put me off completely and pushed me to become more conservative than what I was

You: interesting, although I'm not exactly following what made you more interested in conservative things

Stranger: The constant denigration of those who you disagree with. The treatment hat those people got, most of whom are the working class, upon the backs of which society is upheld. They are not racist or evil. They have a different opinion and different values. How does making a choice in a democracy make someone evil when neither side is perfect?

Stranger: The left preaches tolerance, except that it doesnt in reality

You: mhm yeah I don't like that

You: I don't think it is effective either

Stranger: All it does is polarize people

Stranger: And drive them further away from reaching g a compromise

You: right

Stranger: Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with Brexit, but as a democracy we made a decision. So now we need to exact that decision. I would have voted for trump despite my disdain for him

Stranger: Enact not exact*

You: I think there are a lot of people who think similarly as you do ^^

Stranger: There really are

Stranger: The left has become absorbed by identity politics and is obsessed with race.. it scares me that they will create more racists than before they started

Stranger: Constantly calling your opposition racist and evil will force them into being it

You: mhm I think there are some things to distinguish between social media left-wing people and people in everyday life I think

You: the vitriol is always much more amplified online than people are irl

Stranger: Oh agreed! Twitter is not real life, but it has started to bleed over

You: I live in a fairly liberal state, although I don't really think I have ever seen twitter irl

You: although I do think there is probably self-censorship occuring

You: in the sense that people are afraid of what their neighbors will think

Stranger: There is allot of that

Stranger: Anything you say will be used against you. Even if it's not that controversial

Stranger: People have lost their jobs for an opinion not done at work

You: that said, I don't think that's per say the "left's" fault though -- I just think that public opinion has shifted dramatically in the last 10 years

Stranger: Or how about the man who lost his job because his wife said something controversial

Stranger: I agree with you

Stranger: I really do

Stranger: Allot of this I do think could have been stopped years ago

You: I don't really like the lynch firing of people

You: that companies do for their public image

You: because the truth doesn't matter

You: it's just public image

Stranger: They do so because they are scared of the mob

You: but at the same time, I think public image is a thing because majority opinion really has shifted in the past two decades

You: opinions on homosexuality have swung dramatically in the US

You: ten years ago it was totally okay in public to be anti-homosexual

Stranger: Obama was against gay marriage until it was politically important for him to win the next election

You: but public opinion I think has swung really fast

You: yeah

You: I think he swapped at the first poll that showed >50% of americans supported it

Stranger: Yep! I find it hilarious that that was the case

You: yes but I think conservatives find this kind of fast change extremely uncomforting

You: I can understand that sentiment

You: also isn't it getting kinda late for you? ^^

Stranger: Conservatives are by their very nature are conservative. Change is neither malevolent nor benevolent, but we cannot look at change as universally good. Not can we disregard tradition

Stranger: It's 3 am and I can still keep going, I'm enjoying this conversation :)

You: I need to do the dishes eventually lol

Stranger: If you wish to leave you can by all means :) I won't hate you for it

You: I'm fine either way tbh

You: are you working right now? if you have work tomorrow you should prob go to bed

Stranger: It's up to you :) I can go for ages though my coherence Kay descend

Stranger: I'm sadly unemployed at the moment having lost my job earlier this year

You: coronavirus?

Stranger: Sadly yes

You: that's unfortunate, I'm sorry

Stranger: Not your fault :) so don't stress

You: so aside from Russia and China and the decline of western things, is there anything else that you stress about lol?

Stranger: The drive of censorship

Stranger: I have serious issue with censory

You: mhm

Stranger: And yourself?

You: mhm I dunno really

Stranger: That's good, though I would urge you to become concerned with censorship

You: mhm maybe

You: for me it's sort of a contextual concern I think

You: in the sense that it depends on your vantage point

Stranger: Opinions, art and books doesn't matter. Today it is their voice, tomorrow it is my voice. The day after it becomes your voice. Censorship takes away their rights to speak, and your rights to listen

You: mhm, what I mean is that my family immigrated from China

You: so my reference point of censorship is literal government censorship

You: in comparison the "political correctness" thing just doesn't seem as big to me imo

You: because 90% of it to me is sort of like a person's relationship with the neighbor basically

You: the US government doesn't censor what you can publish essentially

Stranger: That's fair enough, but this is where it starts. Things take time, and if anyone gives in (such as they have in several cases) that builds. In time that becomes the norm, there after what gets censored will not be at the choice of the people but of those who are in power

You: perhaps, although I kind of have faith in the 1st ammendment and the US supreme court

You: we barely have libel laws or defamation laws in the US because of the 1st ammendment

Stranger: I have seen calls to change and amend it. In the uk we have no freedom of speech, people have been arrested for jokes, what's been said on Twitter, etc. There are those who say that it's ok to censor this and that because e they are problematic or it would be good for everyone. But that is how it starts. The US has so much freedom

You: ahh... yeah I feel like it is different in the uk

Stranger: The uk doesn't care for free speech. It's very worrying and there are calls for even more censorship here.

You: mhm that sounds worrisome

Stranger: I guess I project it across to all western countries, and that is something we have seen recently

You: I don't think the US will lose the 1st amendment anytime soon, it's not politically realistiic

Stranger: Look at Amazon censoring books and movies being removed etc, this is how this begins. If it is allowed now, how can we stop it in the future

You: idk the status of free speech in other countries

You: actually this is a very interesting topic

Stranger: The us is one of the only countries that has it

You: do you think freedom of speech should be protected in private spaces?

Stranger: Codified in law that is

You: because technically freedom of speech for us is supposed to be only related to public government relationships

Stranger: I believe it should always be be protected

You: specifically "congress will make no law restricting freedom of speech" (paraphrased)

You: so you believe that private companies should not control what is said on their premises?

You: I mean it's fine if you believe that, it's actually just a bit further than what the current status quo is

Stranger: Yes. They are not above the law. Society may shun them, but they should not become involved. Outright calls for violence are against the law and that should be honoured, outside of that no they should not impose on pthers

You: hmm in the US this is where things get super complicated

You: because conservatives are also the ones who want content restricted/said in their religious schools too

Stranger: I've noticed.. and that has an effect on the rest of the world

You: basically "freedom of religion" and "freedom of speech" being on the same political side here makes things very weird

Stranger: And yeah I am aware of that as well, though the pendulum seems to have swung to the other side now. And it will swing back to the other side again

You: kind of like "My store should have the freedom of religion to deny my patrons of being homosexual in my store" kinda thing

Stranger: Yeah it is hard but there is more to the opposite side than just the one thing

You: it's a weird convoluted thing when both are conservative issues

Stranger: That's a difficult one, but I would say that should be discussed and debated but the highest courts. I cannot say from a legal sense one way or the other, morally I can say that it's hard to decide. I think that everyone should get a choice but I am uncertain

Stranger: By not but*

You: mhm that's fine ^^

You: I just think it's very interesting because most laws here, they govern the relationship between between the government and the people

You: so our freedom of speech laws do not apply to amazon censoring books because they are a private company

Stranger: Which is the difficult thing

Stranger: They are protected by being a private company

Stranger: As it's not just them

You: maybe ^^ we have a free market though, so things that cannot be published on amazon will find an outlet elsewhere

You: provided there is a demand for it

You: that said, it also has some gray area with morality laws

Stranger: That is true but monopoloes make things harder to find

You: kind of like youtube banning pornographic content

Stranger: Yeah I can understand that morally, legally I don't know but I would assume that there is some laws regarding that

You: I mean I'm just used to many various sites having bans of various sorts

Stranger: The uk has some

Stranger: Yeah, but there are protections for them being platforms not publishers

You: I don't think there is any law forcing youtube to ban pornographic content; it's just a branding choice by the company

Stranger: If they are publishers, those protections don't apply

You: like I think they want to be seen as family-friendly

Stranger: Fair enough, would have thought there might be

You: porn sites are not illegal in the US lol

Stranger: Not family friendly, advertisement friendly

You: lol true

Stranger: Sorry I don't know enough to be able to say :) I'm happy to admit that

You: mhm aside from political correctness, I guess I just don't personally see a big problem with censorship in the US

You: although I think I have a different belief than you that I think it's okay for private companies to choose what they want to publish

You: even if the ban content

You: these companies still need to compete

Stranger: Them doing so is fine, but if they wish to be protected as platforms they cannot act as a publisher. I think that's the Crux of their protections

Stranger: It is something that has been going for a while though

Stranger: And I think Trump will have it in his campaign for reelection this year

You: okay ^^

Stranger: But I don't know, he has been interested in censorship and has said he is against it in the past

You: I think people mean different things by censorship

You: but that's just imo

You: there are almost no western countries that experience censorship by their governments

You: so people mean things like censorship at their workplace

You: although imo that's kind of less censorship and more on the political correctness spectrum

Stranger: True. That is very true. But if you don't stop censorship openly, then should it come from government you don't already know you can stand against it

You: but to me, that "political correctness" isn't anything new either; it's as old as time

You: like did we always worry about saying something that would offend our boss?

You: ^^

You: it's always been there

You: I just think people are uncomfortable because bosses have changed in the last few decades

Stranger: It's not just their work place. The new "town square" is has become online. Your freedoms online are not protected despite it being codified in law

Stranger: And you aren't wrong, and coming from China or at least your family, you bring an interesting perspective

You: I feel like in the US we have very little digital legislation

You: the US of is head of hear

You: *there

Stranger: The world needs a digital bill of rights, to protect us all and our data. But we won't get it

You: but I don't think we have anything guaranteeing that speech on the Internet is free by any regard

Stranger: I would argue we do

You: hm? which law?

You: I like most websites have ToS's and rules banning X Y or Z on their site

Stranger: Freedom of speech and expression

You: oh I mean in terms of law

Stranger: That is what I meant, so that we are free to speak and express ourselves. I also believe that our data should be private and cannot be sold and that should be protected. There are other things that I have heard but it's difficult to remember all those that were proposed

You: ahh

You: yeah we don't have those laws right now

Stranger: Today stuff is okay but you are not protected

You: although the EU has some privacy ones that we don't have in the US

Stranger: The EU doesn't care mostly

Stranger: Some laws only protect some information, I'm talking about all of our information

You: ^^

Stranger: Everything we post and do is tracked, monitored and sold

Stranger: We revel in it, "I was talking about cats/dogs and all of a sudden I got adds for cat/dog products"

Stranger: We hear that often

You: yup

Stranger: Also, with regards to our rights and things, who holds these companies accountable?

Stranger: Take google for example

Stranger: They have been caught tampering with the elections

You: well, again, we have basically no laws about this in the US so there is no accountability

Stranger: They openly censor news and opinions

Stranger: They are a monopoly

You: although some europrean countries have lawsuits whatever with them

You: yup they totally are

You: where are anti-trust laws lol?

Stranger: That's what I think Trump will be looking at, I would if I was in his shoes

Stranger: But they were given special protections

Stranger: Those need to be taken away, the large companies need to be broken up but governments are incompetent

Stranger: I don't trust them to do it well

You: mhm it actually reminds me of south korea actually

Stranger: I mean there are a few senators in the states that I think have the moral fortitude to do so, but I don't know

You: countries are loathe to break up companies that they're proud of basically

Stranger: Yep

You: like samsung in south korea lol?

Stranger: They wouldn't break them up

Stranger: It would do serious damage to the economy and blah blah blah

You: their revenue was like 20% of the entire country's gdp

Stranger: Yep it's a difficult argument

Stranger: And I can understand why you wouldnt

Stranger: That 20% could drop to below 1%

You: anyhow it is getting kind of late

You: it was nice talking to you

You: and you should sleep ^^

Stranger: Likewise! :) I needed to move my sleep schedule for a 24 hour race on the weekend anyway, sp thank you for occuping my time and mind :)

You: goodnight!

Stranger: I'm glad to have met another willing to talk, take care my good friend

You have disconnected.

#omegle #identity politics #blm #foreign policy #trump #china #anti-semitism #tech #internet privacy #censorship #first ammendment #freedom of speech #political correctness #politics

2 notes · View notes

punkscowardschampions · 5 years

Text

Junior & Nancy

Junior: What are you gonna do? Nancy: I've never had less of an idea Nancy: What can I do? Junior: I wish I knew for you Junior: But no, I don't Junior: By the time I worked it out, I knew it was too late but maybe if I'd said something to you, we could've avoided it playing out like this Junior: I'm sorry Nancy: Don't apologise to me, please, I can't start sobbing outside of this office Nancy: You've done nothing wrong. It's me who messed everything up Junior: I'm sorry, no wait, scrap that Junior: You can't help what you felt Junior: You're not the first person to get a crush, everyone's just acting like it for the drama of the thing Nancy: But I chose to act on it Nancy: You didn't see her face. It was... Nancy: I've got no words for it Junior: Oh, Nance Junior: There's no other way she could react, or would've Junior: I'm not judging but how did you get this caught up? Its not like you Nancy: I thought she wanted me to. Genuinely I'm not just making an excuse Nancy: We had a connection. The way we'd talk, I didn't imagine that, I can't have Junior: At best though, that could never be more than friendship, she's a married teacher, a straight one Junior: not to go over it now, you know Junior: What a mess Junior: Tristan is being Junior: its bad Nancy: He has a right to Nancy: I'm so stupid, oh my god Nancy: They couldn't hold of mum or dad yet but when they do... Junior: Yeah but, he's trying to make it something it ain't, get the anger but I wish he'd keep the gay hate to a minimum Junior: Oh God, babe Junior: how mortifying Junior: I'll find a hole to bury you in Nancy: Thanks Nancy: I've literally become a lesbian stereotype. The predatory one Nancy: If my brother ever finds out I'm gonna have to get you to bury him too Junior: We're doing our best to keep it on the DL, strictest of confidence Junior: but if your rents talk to mine, he'll suddenly take an interest no doubt, eurgh Junior: You weren't being predatory, at least, that's now how you meant it Junior: and she's in the position of power so she always had the upper hand to push you away Junior: which, I guess, she did in the end Junior: would've been helpful if she'd have clued up before now but we can't blame her Nancy: I'm gonna have to move back, aren't I? How can I stay here. I can't Nancy: I love her and I've done this to her Nancy: What if she loses her job because of me? I might have wanted him to leave her, or vice versa, but I never wanted that Junior: Not necessarily Junior: She won't Junior: Not to rub salt in an open wound but its very clear it came from you and not her Junior: Its not going to come to that Junior: There's only this year left, we can stick it out together, I've got you Junior: anyway, rumours follow, don't they? Idk how but that's the magic of teens, better if you face it head on Junior: own it in the ways you can Nancy: You make everything sound so straightforward, no play on words meant Nancy: I should have told you everything Junior: I get why you didn't Junior: it got to be real when it was just in your head Junior: wow, sounds harsh but, yeah? Nancy: I'm gonna hear much worse Nancy: At least you're coming for a good place Junior: We need to decide on your side of the story, so we can stick to it Nancy: What's the point? Everyone already knows what happened Junior: Yeah, there's definitely the key facts you're not gonna be able to run from Junior: but its all about how you sell it Nancy: What are you saying I should do? I can't throw her under the bus Junior: No, of course not Junior: I'm not explaining it well 'cos I can't do it myself Junior: but you know, the old, hold your head up high regardless of how you're really feeling Junior: acting as if you're not as phased as you are, too, not lying about what happened, just acting as like its less of a thing so people will get bored, you know? Nancy: Have you met my mum? Holding my head up high won't be a problem Nancy: Casually trained at it Junior: Yeah, no, good Junior: I know its gonna be hard Junior: but it will help this all be over sooner Nancy: That'd be nice Nancy: It's new for the rumor mill but not me Junior: How long? Nancy: Since I came here, pretty much Junior: Oh, honey Junior: That's such a long time to have those kind of feelings Nancy: I know Nancy: How did I get here? Junior: I dunno Junior: We all build things up in our minds, fantasies and that Junior: it just got out of hand because it was uncheck Junior: like I said, you're not the first or last Junior: Its okay, it will be alright Nancy: You're only saying that to make me feel better, I get that, but it's kind of working anyway Junior: I'm honestly not Junior: You know what went down wasn't cool but I think the outcome is more than enough punishment without me needing to be a dick about it Nancy: but I wouldn't blame you if you were Nancy: You asked me so many times who I fancied, if I'd just said, it would have stopped it, I would have come to my senses enough not to try and kiss her Junior: But you wanted to Junior: more than you wanted to be logical and sensible Junior: for better, or worse, as its transpired Junior: its easy to beat yourself up about it now Nancy: I should've beat myself up before hand Nancy: Repeatedly over the head Junior: I'll get you a time-turner and a mallet, like Nancy: Much appreciated Nancy: Can you arrange a bodyguard too, for Rio more than Tristan tbh Nancy: She's gonna be livid Junior: Not with you Junior: She'll get it better than me, she's had her fair share of crushes, I'm sure Nancy: Have you really not? Nancy: Envy you at this point Junior: Nope Junior: I'm like a sexless slug Nancy: They have a nicer label for that, to let you know Junior: Yeah, I'm not into that Junior: Never say never, you know Nancy: Unlike you have my judgement Nancy: Unless* Nancy: Never say never with your straight, married, teacher Junior: When is it okay to laugh cos like Nancy: Go ahead Nancy: We have to Nancy: I can't cry rn and still face everyone Nancy: I'm not THAT good at holding my head high Junior: are you gonna take some time off or just Junior: face it from the jump Nancy: I think if I walk away it'll just make it harder to come back Nancy: If I'm staying here then I need to carry on Junior: Agreed, from that POV, definitely the best thing to do Junior: but don't force yourself to do things you can't Junior: we can go cry in the toilets whenever you need, okay? Nancy: Have a gorgeous mascara moment Nancy: Maybe my mum will force on a flight back to London Junior: Maybe Junior: Or roll up on you here Junior: such fun Nancy: Oh god, she probably will Nancy: I know I brought it on myself but....please no Nancy: Parent swap with me really quick? Junior: They'd despair but give it my best Junior: At least your Dad is going to be too awkward to say anything Junior: Small blessing Nancy: I wish that was a like father like son trait Junior: Thank god for the mute button Junior: shame it doesn't cover all communications, including IRL Nancy: Honestly Nancy: If I thought I hated Irish class before Junior: Yeah, no escaping how bad that's gonna be Junior: 😬 Nancy: If I pretend I've had a straight awakening now will that make it better or worse Nancy: She turned me everybody, nothing to see here Junior: I think it'll take you from the butt of the gay jokes to the butt of the slag ones Junior: which might be easier to handle but Junior: might have to display some straightness and we're not a convincing couple to say the least Nancy: Plus you're my cousin Nancy: That'd just create more rumors Junior: Yeah preferably you're going straight for someone not in the fam Junior: Idk, who are the most elligible bachelors around Junior: Hmm Nancy: Tristan's off the table Nancy: Lovehate only happens in YA Junior: Plus, all that rage, probably closeted himself, if we're following the rules of YA to the letter Nancy: And if we're going classical, he probably wants to sleep with his mum too Junior: 🤢 Junior: oh no Junior: flip the script on 'em, go for a younger boy Junior: preferably not weird young, like year below tops Nancy: Oh god Nancy: Boys are so Nancy: Even hypothetically it's a no Junior: 😂 Junior: I don't think you're gonna be pulling this off effectively any time soon Nancy: You're right. Back to the drawing board I go Nancy: Thanks, June, for talking me off the ledge Junior: Wouldn't be worth much as a bestie if I didn't Junior: we've got this Junior: it only FEELS like the end of the world Junior: that's comforting, right? 😏 Nancy: Until I think about how bad you said Tristan is handling what happened Junior: Yeah, well, reckon Rio will be having words Junior: he just needs to get it out of his system Junior: look sufficiently sorry and miserable and he should be satisfied, then you can get on with your life, like Nancy: I do feel sorry and miserable so as long as I can get it across instead of looking like a unrepentant bitch Nancy: We'll see Junior: Yeah Junior: he's not awful, like Junior: It probably sucks having teacher parents, but that ain't a reason to take out years of frustration on this sitch Nancy: He can't be that bad, she raised him Junior: Oh, babe Junior: you've got it so bad Nancy: I wish there was a mute button for feelings Junior: You've got to start putting in the work Junior: Conscious uncoupling Nancy: That'll be as much fun as having the chat with my parents Junior: I didn't promise fun Junior: Strictly business Nancy: This is why lesbians die at the end of every movie, isn't it? Nancy: No fun Junior: Mhmm, its not just bed death you've gotta avoid Junior: its alright, you've been scorned, that'll further your plot development, no need to die today Nancy: Just living with the heartbreak then. Fantastic Junior: Unfortunately Junior: Its survivable, so I'm told Junior: and there's lots of songs and films on the subject to keep you company Nancy: You're angling for a hetero rom-com watching session because the male leads are always hot. I see you Junior: You need some straight drama in your life Junior: it will make you feel so much better about your own Nancy: Her being straight was a big part of my drama Junior: Yes and no Junior: Even if she was gay, Nance, it wouldn't have happened, alright? Junior: You need to remember that Junior: what if you have a nice lesbian lecturer at Uni, you don't wanna go through this again, thinking it'll be different Junior: its a no go whatever the circumstances Nancy: I know Nancy: I'm trying Nancy: I don't want to go through this again Junior: I know Junior: Its a complete perspective overhaul Junior: It'll take time Junior: you'll get there Nancy: I better Nancy: I don't wanna be stuck here in this place Junior: You won't be Junior: You've got a whole life of new, better experiences waiting Nancy: Brain swap? If I was as smart as you I could graduate early Junior: You're plenty smart, its truly not that far off now Junior: Final stretch Nancy: You're right. It just feels like forever rn Nancy: My own fault Junior: It does though Junior: clock watching all day every day Nancy: Definitely Nancy: Same

0 notes

miss-musings · 7 years

Text

Comparisons between TBL’s Lizzington and The Bride and Bill from “Kill Bill”

How have we never talked about the similarities between these two before? I did a quick Google search, and I found a gifset comparing the "don't marry that guy" scene from the respective shows, but that was about it.

There are soooooo many similarities, it physically hurts my soul.

Guy/gal couple have a very meaningful, trusting relationship (which is explicitly romantic and sexual in Kill Bill; the jury is still on out The Blacklist)

There is a significant age gap between the guy and gal; in some ways, he is her mentor as well as her love interest

Both of them live in a violent world and/or take part in a violent profession that involves tracking down and (sometimes) killing people

Gal finds out she's pregnant, distances her self from guy in an effort to keep her baby safe

In her efforts, gal fakes her death

Guy is absolutely devastated to lose her

Guy tracks down gal inadvertently while looking for the people supposedly responsible for her death

At some point, gal intends to marry a second dude, and first guy objects to this marriage; and because of some violent circumstances, gal never marries the second dude

Gal gives birth to a baby girl

Guy helps to raise the gal's daughter while she is ~gone~ (in Kill Bill, Bill raises his daughter B.B. while the Bride is in a coma; in TBL, Liz fakes her death)

Guy and gal have a confrontation where each of them is angry at what the other did; yet deep down, it's evident they both still care about each other

Guy at one point is accused of/says he's the gal's father

There are plenty of differences too, don't get me wrong.

But, while the whole "Red is Liz's dad-CONFIRMED" thing from the S4a finale frustrated me to no end, it's good to keep in mind that there was a scene where the Bride pretended that Bill was her dad, even though the two had been in a relationship and she was pregnant with their child.

I think this also gives some perspective on why Liz has seemed so mean and vicious toward Red. Even if the "Agnes Reddington" theory turns out to be false -- and, as awesome as it would be, I highly doubt the writers would go there -- Liz would still feel incredibly protective of Agnes from Red.

Liz and Red had been in a relatively good place in their relationship. They built up a great level of trust, understanding and affection while she was on the run in Season 3a. Then, in Gregory Devry, she's clearly frustrated that he isn't going to take a break and that the fight against the Cabal must continue. But, it's only after she finds out she's pregnant that her frustration and venom against him REALLY escalates.

***

Before that strip turned blue ...I was a woman, I was your woman.

I was a killer who killed for you.

Before that strip turned blue, I would've jumped a motorcycle onto a speeding train.

For you.

But once that strip turned blue ...I could no longer do any of those things.

Not anymore.

Because I was gonna be a mother.

But why didn't you tell me then, instead of now?

Once you knew, you'd claim her. And I didn't want that.

Not your decision to make.

But it's the right decision, and I made it for my daughter.

She deserved to be born with a clean slate.

But with you, she would've been born into a world she shouldn't have.

I had to choose.

I chose her.

***

That, ladies and gentleman, is the dialogue -- as best I can tell -- from the confrontation between The Bride and Bill once she finds out that B.B. lived and that Bill raised her, and as Bill is finding out why The Bride faked her death to begin with.

Even operating under the assumption that Agnes IS Tom's daughter, the conversation still applies quite well to the Lizzington relationship. While she definitely disagreed on his methods and decisions, Liz showed time and time again that she was loyal to Red and cared about him and his well being. Granted, not to the same level that the Bride did with Bill, but still... it works.

In Lizzington's case, Liz's affection for / loyalty to Red seems to have gone out the door the minute she found out she was pregnant.

Red, well-meaning as he was, did try to "claim" Liz and her child, in a certain way. He definitely tried to insert himself into her life. He offered to give her money for her child; he put a security team across the hall; booked pregnancy massages, bought her a couch, etc. So long as Liz was in Red's life, that meant that Agnes was in his life as well. Liz knew first-hand that people had used her to get to Red; who's to say they wouldn't use Agnes to get to her and/or Red?

She rejected Red's "dirty / blood money." She wanted Agnes to have a relatively normal life. Fair enough. As venomous and hateful as she's been toward Red since Season 3b, I can't fault her for that much.

In the end, Liz chose her daughter over Red.

And, now, Bill gets to tell the Bride "the truth."

***

And for the record, letting somebody think somebody they love is dead when they're not is quite cruel.

I mourned you for three months.

And in the third month of mourning you... I tracked you down. I wasn't tryin' to track you down. I was tryin' to track down the fucking assholes I thought killed you.

So I find you...and what do I find?

Not only are you not dead...you're getting married to some fucking jerk.

And you're pregnant.

I overreacted.

You overreacted?

Is that your explanation?

I didn't say I was gonna explain myself. I said I was gonna tell you the truth.

But if that's too cryptic, let's get literal.

I'm a killer. I'm a murdering bastard. You know that.

And there are consequences...to breaking the heart of a murdering bastard.

You experienced some of them.

Was my reaction really that surprising?

***

Gah, if this isn't Red, you guys, I don't know what is.

Granted, in TBL, Liz and Tom decide to get married while Liz is pregnant and THEN she fakes her death. (Whereas in Kill Bill, it's the other way around.) Either way, Red was devastated and hurt by both decisions. He warned Liz not to marry Tom -- begged her, even. Said it wasn't in her best interests, that he wouldn't change. Now, it's been a while since I watched Kill Bill Vol. 1, but I feel like Bill told The Bride that she shouldn't marry the other dude because she was a killer and she would always wake up and be a killer. It would be hard for, if not impossible, for The Bride to be satisfied with a "normal life."

(In some respects, I would argue the same thing for Liz. We saw in the pilot that she's drawn to the criminal mind. Not saying she couldn't also be a stay-at-home mother, but would she really be happy with that life, long-term? I feel like she would miss the action, drama, and psychology of her time on the FBI Task Force. Anyway...)

Now, as for the fake death, Red is completely distraught -- a man without purpose -- after Liz's death. His saving grace, he'd hoped, was to be a part of Agnes' life, but Tom seemingly puts the kibosh on that. So, he goes to Cape May and then he sulks at Dom's house. It's not until Aram says they need help tracking down Liz's killers that he decides to come back.

Additionally, Red has told Liz (and others) time and time again that he is a killer. He's a monster -- someone who does bad things; even if he has the best of intentions, he still kills people.

After Liz died, what was the first thing we saw in the Cape May episode? Red presumably killed Nick, her doctor guy. He also went on quite the killing spree to find Susan Hargrave and then Kirk, all in an effort to get revenge for Liz's supposed death.

But, after he reunited with Liz, what did he do? He kept his distance. Yes, he offered her help and protection, and so on, but he isn't nearly as close or as unguarded with her as he had been previously. Even now... he gets Liz her much-desired pardon, and what does he do? He lets her find out on the TV and hangs out in his car. Doesn’t even give her so much as a phone call. This was a man who was thrilled to buy her an apartment and called her seemingly every half-hour she was waiting for her trial in 3x10.

All in all, I just wanted to point out the similarities between these two shows, and wonder at whether this means The Blacklist will follow in the shoes of Kill Bill, or if it's going to do its own thing. (It's going to be the latter, let me tell you right now.) Still, it's fun to speculate.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Wanted to add to this meta?

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