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m4rs-ex3 · 7 months

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the visuals for the last like 20 minutes of atsv are my favorite things ever

specifically: the color theory

earth-42 is obviously striking on a whole nother level

we tend to automatically think of red as the color of danger, but that's loud and passionate and angry. this haunting, sickening green feels more conniving and threatening and apocalyptic.

(if you think of color in disney movies, all the scariest, most cunning villains--maleficent, scar, ursula, evil queen, facilier, gothel--have either palettes or grand moments or motifs heavily utilizing green)

and something i always notice is that rio 42 looks just a little off, and it's because they reflect so much green in her eyes they look almost entirely green

and, if this is your first time watching, you have no idea why the environment is made to be so deeply unsettling. let's look at gwen's dimension for a sec

being home is a really bad thing to gwen. while miles was doing everything he could to get home, gwen was literally dragged there--because gwen views her dimension as unsafe (ignore the trans parallels ignore the trans parallels ingore the tra

it's dark. it has the same ominous rain. but you can tell it's 65. that bisexual lighting is unmistakable

i can't even go into the colors of gwen and george's argument because there is an image limit and i am lazy. but we know it's insane. the emotional peak of the scene is also where we see the colors most vibrant and changing the most abruptly

and when they have their beautiful lil moment, this is what happens

not only is it blindingly bright and trans colored all of a sudden, but the characters don their "true" coloring

and even after gwen leaves, the scene is still bright, and familiar

miles should be safe in his dimension. but we know he's not.

back to earth-42. well i mean we have these absolute visual bangers what do i need to say u get it

and then there's this absolutely incredible moment where i would say miles is at his emotional peak (manic peak as well; i mean spot's hands and the infamous revenge line...yoikes.) and just like with gwen, the emotional high is where we see the most dynamic colors so coincidence i think not

this next sequence is just one of the coolest fuckin chase-esq scenes i've ever seen. like the mumbattan one slapped but the pacing and direction and elements and epicness together here are just immaculate

another thing--miguel/ben's post is heavily shrouded in red. he's supposed to be ominously looming over exactly where miles is headed. buttttttttt~ when miles first crash lands, there is quite a bit of red, and as he gets closer to home, the city gets bluer and bluer with less and less red, bc yk he's not actually headed towards miguel/ben. woah. i make sense guys. i am a fart smella. i mean smart smella. i mean fart fella. i mean fart smella. i mea

#extra credit for anyone who wants to count how many times i say color and visuals #atsv #across the spiderverse #across the spider verse #spiderverse #spider verse #earth 1610 #earth 42 #earth 65 #color theory #atsv analysis

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hobiebrownismygod · 8 months

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Analyzation of Hobie Brown's sexualization on Tumblr (Also a little bit of ranting cuz it pisses me off like crazy)

Summary:

I'll be going over different stereotypes but I'll focus on the sexualization of black characters in the media specifically. Then I'm gonna relate it back to Hobie Brown and give a little lecture/stern-talking to at the end.

TW: Mentions of sex and sexuality, stereotypes, some mentions of pedophilia

Hobie Brown is not the only hyper-sexualized black man in the media. Almost every attractive black man from a TV show has been turned into a toy for fan fiction writers, including Prowler Miles/Earth-42 Miles (That's a whole other post). The same thing happens with POC characters like Miguel O'hara.

The hyper-sexualization of black characters has been around since the beginning of the integration of POC characters into the media. However, racist perceptions/stereotypes of African-Americans and other POC people in general have been around for even longer, results of white supremacy and "white man's burden"-based imperialism.

African-Americans specifically have been subject to stereotypes such as "being unable to control themselves" since the 1500s, during which black men in particular were being characterized as almost "animalistic." This translated into stereotypes which are still common today, like the stereotype that black men have more sexual prowess than other races.

Bell & Harris (linked below) find that many of these modern hyper-stereotypical images of Black folks have historically depicted them as violent, involved in criminal activity, deadbeat drunks or drug-addicts, or unable to control themselves sexually, financially, or physically. These images render the Black middle class invisible and reduce Blackness merely to pejorative categories. Such descriptions of Black masculinity are problematic for media consumers and emasculating for Black folks. For media viewers, such images relegate Blacks and/or Blackness to the role of being “the problem” and Whiteness as what is normal, typical, and ideal in comparison. Further, portrayals of Blackness juxtaposed against the backdrop of “Whiteness as the ideal” are problematic. They enable the media to influence how audience members construct and/or “view” members of various cultural communities and impact how traditionally marginalized community members may view themselves.

So in summary:

Black characters are sexualized because of stereotypes that have been around for centuries, results of extreme prejudice and blatant racism, which people continue to spew today. By sexualizing black characters in the media so freely, writers are emasculating their black readers and being casually offensive without even realizing it.

By writing about black characters like they're objects, especially black men, you are disrespecting the image of African-Americans in the media, and harming the media's interpretation of them, which eventually leads to worse stereotypes and worse situations for them to have to deal with.

Now let's specifically talk about Hobie Brown.

Why exactly is he so sexualized on Tumblr? The same reasons listed above. He's an attractive black man, so many fan fiction writers find him fair game to create their stereotypical smut-ridden stories, and completely disregard his entire character.

Despite him having zero romantic interests and not even being displayed as a sexual character, people are automatically assuming that he would have a high sexual prowess and would be very sex-motivated.

Do you see the similarities? Blatant racism.

The stereotype that black men have a higher sexual prowess is translating into Hobie Brown's character, which is why there's so much smut written about him. This is also the reason why there's not as much fluff written about him. Because according to these stereotypes, African-American men don't have emotions. They're so masculine that they would never talk about their feelings. They're sexual toys and nothing else.

Do you see the problem with this?

Now this is all without even addressing the fact that his age isn't confirmed. He could be anywhere from 16-25 years old. I personally think he's a teenager, because of the fact that he hangs out with Gwen and Pav who are canonically 13 and 16, and because he looks like a teenager and acts like a teenager.

Overall, the message of this post is-

The hyper-sexualization of black men in the media has to be addressed. Hobie Brown is only the latest victim of sexual stereotypes and this isn't okay. No character should have their entire storyline, plot and characterization stripped down to their sexuality. It's disgusting.

The writers spent a lot of time and put a lot of effort into Hobie's character. By stripping him down to his looks and his sexuality, you are disrespecting the writers and you are feeding into stereotypes. Don't be a supporter of casual racism. Don't be a supporter of stereotypes. Don't be a supporter of sensualizing characters. Don't be a supporter of casual pedophilia.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk. Here's a pretty picture of Hobie.

He looks so done 💀. Me after seeing people continue to write smut about him.

Note: I'm not African-American, so if anything I said needs editing or if any of the stereotypes I mentioned are inaccurate in any way, please reach out to me! I'm trying to be a better writer and any type of feedback would be very helpful <3

Sources:

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10057104

Bell & Harris:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/17513057.2016.1142598

https://fabulizemag.com/adults-thirsting-over-underage-characters-is-weird/

@ignocubo

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shuinami · 10 months

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Jess and Hobie: their defining strengths + their weaknesses

I had a thought about Hobie while I was writing, have been thinking about Jess for a while and then this post about Miguel came out and it made me kind of want to yap. I'll only talk about Hobie and Jessica here because I'm biased + Peter & Gwen have been talked about a lot + I linked a post about Miguel + Miles & Pav have simpler, more obvious flaws that basically come down to youthful naivety.

I also find it really interesting that their flaws are basically opposites, Hobie's comes from "inconsistency" whilst Jessica's comes from stubbornness. And again, both these flaws come from their greatest strengths.

TL;dr

Jess' defining strength is her resolve when it comes to fighting for what's right and tussling with destiny but it causes her to have a one-track mind, even if it comes to dedicating herself to something wrong (from being misguided).

Hobie's defining strength is his optimism (e.g. anarcho-communism) but the extreme difficulty of pursuing those ideals and the struggle against systems can bring that optimism to a breaking point, causing him to be inconsistent or, more directly, to give up.

I think people forget that Jessica's pregnancy is by design and not just a 'feature' of Jessica Drew as a character. She was deliberately chosen to be represented in this stage of her life and I think it is so important to her character, even if it's not in the traditional way that pregnancy is typically portrayed as in media.

I think her pregnancy shows the kind of person she is: most obviously, it's cold, hard evidence that she's a bamf who takes care of spidey business even while pregnant.

More importantly to me, though, there's an implication that, as her universe's one and only spidey, she has been the one to save the day and been the change she wishes to seek, effectively enough that she feels comfortable bringing a baby into the world.

Unlike someone like Peter, she does not make the choice between bringing her child to work with her or leaving them behind. She just has to do what she needs to do to make sure her kid is safe, there's no failing for her. During her pregnancy, it's always going to be a matter of life and death. Jess is well aware and, instead of shying away from action, she's just committed to not making those kinds of mistakes. To get over her losses. She's going to take charge of her own world's destiny as she has always done and she's going to make sure it's good.

Her strong allegiance to Miguel's ideas is her most glaring flaw to us as an audience because A. we're seeing things through Miles' eyes, she's standing in the way of him saving his father and B. we know that Miguel can't be right about canon events - we know they wouldn't make the movies as bleak as that.

Of course, taking a step back from our perspective, it's also a flaw because she is being antagonistic to a teenager as a grown adult. It might make her seem cold and harsh.

However, Jess was the one to vouch for Gwen, to take her in, even though Miguel didn't want her to and they could have left things up to the web of destiny. Jess trusts her own capabilities but she doesn't trust the world to be kind. She doesn't assume Gwen can handle things just because she can, either. On top of being sympathetic, I think her dedication to being the change she wishes to see is why she accepts Gwen as a student; she trusts that a young girl can make the world a better place too, it's not a thing where she wants to micromanage everything. She just wants to know the multiverse is in safe hands. That's her "great responsibility".

The only reason she is following the anti-Miles agenda is because Miles, as far as she and anybody else in-movie knows, is jeopardising the existence of every universe (insidiously via the holes). Maybe, in another position, say, a bright-eyed teen who mainly worried about high school and puppy love, she would be more willing to risk things, to see how it goes.

She's not in that position though. Her world that she felt confident she had the power to keep safe has been made uncertain. One day, it could just go poof, along with her baby, and she wouldn't be able to stop it in the moment. If she makes the right decision now, if she doesn't make a mistake, she can prevent it. It's understandable that she's going to do whatever it takes to prevent anomalies.

What was the canon event chosen to represent her?

Her version of the moment from "The Final Chapter".

It comes from a story that largely focuses on Peter's personal life before spiralling into action to make up for a mistake that has made Aunt May fatally ill. In the panel, Spider-Man is trapped under machinery with the cure - the thing that will absolve the mistake - just out of reach. As the lair is flooded, drowning is imminent.

Against all odds, though, Spider-Man pushes past what should have killed him and rises to the occasion, with the thoughts of saving Aunt May and refusing to have a repeat of Uncle Ben.

"I won't fail you. No matter what - I won't fail."

Jess has had to handle her own fate as well as her world's. Now that the multiverse is involved, it's not going to stop at her own universe. She has to stop this. She won't fail. As per the dialogue between her and Gwen in ATSV, she's made a mistake before (by getting too close to someone) but she tells Gwen "I got over it". Sounds so savage in the moment but she still gives Gwen a chance to make her own situation right before letting her get kicked off the team. Helping Gwen in spite of the anomaly would be a mistake if she couldn't handle this.

And when the Spot gets away and Miles enters the picture? The gloves come off. It's tempting fate at that point. Jess' no mistakes mindset pushes her to even prepare to roll up on a teenager.*

Her greatest strength is her resolve - I mean, hell, she doesn't let even pregnancy slow her down when it comes to saving the world - but it causes her to be stubborn and leads her down a misguided path.

*By the end of the film, she seems to be questioning Miguel's method, though. On top of the fact that BTSV is obviously going to end on a good note, I think Jess' fight against destiny is going to have her come around in the end as Miles is doing the same thing.

Onto Hobie:

I luv luv luv Hobie as much as everyone else, he's definitely my favourite but I feel he has his flaws too (which tend to make me love my faves more lol).

In fact, I think he says what they are when we first meet him, though they are veiled as jokes.

I find that the audience tends to position him as a perfect distillation of anarcho-communism at its best. I think the teen spideys see him in a similar light; they see him as effortlessly cool & charismatic, a wise mentor figure ("use your palms" + his play fighting with Pavitr featured him taking on the stance of a boxing trainer as Pavitr tried to punch his palms) but he's not like the adult adults - he's relatable, he's cool, he's anarchist, he's not always on their case like Jess and Miguel.

He neither calls himself a hero nor a role model... but he is the perfect hero and role model, right? He's the best! He's the only one who's looking out for Miles and, when Miles is getting chased down by the entire society, what does he do?

He... quits.

Wouldn't that perfect hero we all believe him to be swoop in with his cape, know exactly what to do and save Miles, the underdog? He can't have possibly known Miles would manage against the society and, if he knew it was possible, then why wouldn't he lend a hand? He didn't drop off the watch in Miles' dimension, he gave one to his bestie, Gwen, likely in the scenario that she wanted to quit or got booted because 'it [didn't] work out'.**

I think Hobie's major flaw is his lack of consistency, as he famously said himself.

He has a strong moral code - he believes in the right things for the right reasons... but communism and anarchy are pretty much impossible to properly/entirely employ in a system that is consumerist, capitalist and authoritarian. He riots, he fights, but it's never over. London isn't free. In my experience, people with strong moral compasses tend to have issues with themselves because they hold others to higher standards than most and hold themselves to even higher and impossible standards (think Diane from Bojack Horseman).

One of the first comic panels I encountered of Hobie was him getting real with Captain Anarchy about losing morale because, despite killing President Ozzy Osborne, the face of fascism in his dystopia, nothing changes. He wasn't able to save the world like a hero in a movie or like a proper role model. He 'failed'. When you give your everything and nothing changes, no matter how optimistic, clever or read-up on theory you are, it can be hard to keep going.

And what is chosen as his defining canon event?

His version of Spider-Man quitting in "Spider-Man No More". Rather than being fed up with the world antagonising him as 616 is, Hobie is done with an antagonistic world.

The Hobie/Spider-Punk that has been built up externally, as far as I understand, would never give up. He'd keep raging forever and ever because that's the cool thing to do, because it's the heroic thing to do - because it's the right thing to do.

But under the mask, he's just a teenager, imperfect as any other.

He's still a Spider-Man too. Before the bite, he was another lanky black boy in racist-af, peak National Front, send-the-blacks-and-the-Asians-back, '70s England. He's a nerd, as evidenced by his ability to build such a high-tech watch, especially as a teenager who wouldn't have had access to anything like it until joining the society, meaning he had to pick it up quick. And I'm to think he didn't have any Flash-esque characters in his life? "Come out of it."

As Spider-Man with the mask on, he yells to the rooftops; as Hobie with the mask off, he mumbles and whispers. Sure he looks cool now but people don't tend to come out of the womb as Spider-Punk. On top of that, he's still so young and surely has plenty of room to grow.

I believe he joined the society in earnest, optimistic that he could help the multiverse but eventually reached his limits with actively facilitating death and trauma, with saving the multiverse not meaning freedom in his own universe, with being shackled to the web of destiny. I'm not convinced he made the watch in one day; I think he had been planning on quitting for some time and was waiting for the right moment (as he also wanted to support Gwen because friendship is important to him). That's why he tries to dissuade Miles from joining but, when he does leave, he doesn't go out in a riot, he doesn't even leave knowing that Miles has people on his side other than him. Hobie just quits.

I think his greatest strength is his optimism (his anarcho-communism & adamance about "love, joy and freedom" as per the un-permitted performance art pieces in his montage) but he's smart and he's been through shit - he isn't naive like Pavitr or Miles - the great heights of that optimism lead to intensely low lows.

**(I don't really see why or how he would have been able to predict everything that happened in the chase. I know that the watch is set to 1610 but if Hobie believed Miles would make it out of 928 and get back to 1610, would that not be things 'working out'? Or did he predict that he would get to the go-home machine but was the only one who considered that he would be sent to the place his spider came from. Why? And why wouldn't he set the watch to 42 if he knew Miles wouldn't be in 1610? I feel like the 1610 on the interface is just there to be there and that Hobie gave Gwen the watch so she could have the freedom to leave 65 if she wanted to, in the event that she quit the society because they captured Miles or because Miguel kicked her out as Jess kept warning.)

#i luv them #atsv spoilers #across the spiderverse spoilers #across the spiderverse #jessica drew #atsv jessica #hobie brown #spider punk #atsv analysis #shui meta

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madethisjusttobrowse · 1 year

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Has anybody else realized that when Gwen says it doesn't end well when Gwen Stacy falls in love with Spider-man, Miles was probably thinking she meant they break up or it's a one-sided thing, not that Gwen usually dies because how could he possibly know the multi-universal fate of Gwen Stacy? Miles is out here thinking this is romance drama while Gwen is thinking, "There's a 95% chance I'm going to fucking die."

#across the spiderverse #spiderverse #miles morales #gwen stacy #ghostflower #miles x gwen #just let them be happy #spider gwen #atsv analysis #atsv spoilers

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spidey-bie · 11 months

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I don't remember if anyone has typed out a post on this or not, but what are movie Hobie's canon events are? Especially regarding the whole "a cop close to Spiderman had to die."

We all know Hobie would never mess with cops. SoI find it incredibly hard to believe that he at any point was close to a police officer. So what exactly happened that replaced that? And at what point in Hobie's timeline did this happen? Because there is a possibility (it's such a small possibility like fingers almost touching small) that Hobie was close to a cop as a child that betrayed him.

NO WAIT. What if the cop dying was in a more symbolic sense. The cop betrayed Hobie and now he's "dead" to Hobie.

Also how'd he get bitten? I know how it happened to Comic Hobie however in the movie during his introduction he jokingly glossed over how he was bitten by a spider. Is there something there? I need someone else's thoughts on this before I go crazy.

#im physically unwell over this movie #NOW I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS #SIR TELL ME YOUR SECRETS #hobie brown #hobart brown #atsv hobie #atsv analysis #atsv #satsv #hobie brown across the spiderverse #hobie brown atsv #hobie atsv #hobie across the spiderverse #jay and the spiders

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moralesmilesanhour · 5 months

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Hi hello this person is single-handedly carrying atsv discourse right now. Her analyses of the racial subtext in the film rewired my brain chemistry

#miles being both an anomaly and Spider-Man thus relegating him to a weird void in the middle #SPIDERMAN AS ANANSI/BRER RABBIT FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE MADE THE CONNECTION #miles' story (perhaps unintentionally) embodies the nature of blackness as a social construct in like #almost every way possible #miles morales #spiderman across the spiderverse #atsv analysis #tiktok #blabbering

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fluffypotatey · 1 year

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i know this has been said tons of times already in different ways but,

i just love the way Miguel and the Spider Society forcing everyone to follow the “canon” and telling Miles that he is not allowed to change the predestined story because “everyone else had to go through it” is an excellent metaphor for older generations re-enforcing to younger generations the ideology that the suffering they have to go through of whatever kind is normal and expected.

it’s like that saying “if i had to grow through hell, so do you.” but the thing is, Spiderman is the hero who is typically the one saying, “i’ll make sure you never go through hell like i did.” it’s such a cool way to show the conflict and disconnect between the two ideologies that Miles struggles with in the film

just….like the fact that Miguel and Jessica sort of symbolize the kind of parents who worked their asses off to make sure the world you live in will be better than theirs then feel upset and betrayed when their child who has the privilege to live a life they might have desired in the kid’s age. definitely didn’t find any relatability to that aha

I just love that it’s the fact that Spiderman’s story of losing Uncle Ben, losing the police chief, losing Gwen, are things Miles is told he cannot fight (the whole parallel between being told life = suffering and desiring a happier outcome won’t work). BUT THEN, Miles says fuck that! he says “no, why should i have to put up with that when i know i can change it!” and just 🫠

idk i love this movie and i hope this makes sense

#reason…..*checks notes* 28901 on why i love this movie and find Miles incredibly relatable #also the scene where Miguel reveals Miles is an ‘anomaly’ T^T the proJECTION!#the heavy projection that feeds into the insecurities and self doubt and self worth T^T ahahahahaha #but yeah #sorry the end felt rushed i was running out of energy and felt like i was just repeating myself #hope y’all found this coherent enough #anyway #atsv #atsv spoilers #atsv meta #atsv analysis #spiderman atsv #across the spider verse #miles morales #across the spiderverse #across the spider verse spoilers

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killerpancakeburger · 9 months

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Besides his violence (verbal, physical when he throws objects and fight), what bothered me about Miguel is how every one of his word is to be trusted. And it is trusted, by every spider in the spider society apparently. Without question.

Like just because Miguel broke the canon once, that makes him an expert on the subject? Surely he knows as a scientist that a one time event isnt reliable enough to base your whole theory on it...?

Lyla says there's an algorithm, where does come from? How was it done? By a single guy? No peer review?

It's just that everything around the multiverse treated as truth is just Miguel's theory. And because he's the only one with that knowledge and their leader, no one ever questions him? That can't be good. Nor healthy.

Gwen and Miles questionned him the right way. "How do you know?" "Do you know what happens for sure if he breaks the canon?" And the answer "Do you wanna find out?" Feels like admitting he doesnt actually know. He isnt sure.

They should do more research, get data and experiment before rushing into life changing decisions. Before deciding that theres only one right way to do thing, Miguel's way. Surely among the thousands of spiderppl they got, there must be other scientists.

#miguel o'hara #atsv analysis #across the spiderverse #spider man: across the spider verse #atsv #spiderverse #mine

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babydrummer · 8 months

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hobie brown's character/dimension is a critique of systematic oppression by means of the government and the police force, while miles g / 42!miles (as we've seen him so far) is a critique of capitalism as seen through corporate injustice. while both of these things are deeply intertwined, these stories are clearly attempting to show the difference between how capitalism/society takes advantage of the class divide vs the racial divide. in this essay i will-

#.mine #atsv #across the spiderverse #hobie brown #spider punk #miles g morales #42!miles #prowler miles #atsv analysis #yeah i'm tagging this im fucking awesome

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aloevhello · 10 months

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Spoilers for Spider-Man 2099 comic run

Considering that the Spiderverse trilogy acts as a meta commentary on Spider-Man comics, I find it interesting in how this commentary applies to Miguel in both his comics and the films.

(Note: Everything is speculation).

At the end of Into the Spiderverse, we see Miguel in his Spiderman 2099 suit that’s based on the original 90’s run of his series. From that the audience can conclude that this particular Miguel is from the original 90’s run of Spiderman 2099. Also important to note that this 90’s run was cancelled, causing the series to end on a cliffhanger with many of Miguel’s interpersonal relationships being unresolved and him ending up alone. With Miguel in the post-credit scene of “Into” jumping into another dimension to form the Spider Society, the film is providing an in universe explanation on why the Spiderman 2099 90’s run ended on a cliffhanger, which is that Miguel essentially opted out of the narrative being written for him. Instead of dealing with the messiness of his relationships from his civilian life, Miguel prioritizes his duties as Spider-Man by going dimension hopping and starting the Spider Society to stop multiversal threats.

Connecting to Across the Spiderverse, we see Miguel reminiscing on how he went to an alternate dimension and took on the identity of another version of himself that has a family (ie. his daughter Gabriella). This could be referencing the 2014-2015 comic run of Spiderman 2099 where Miguel has a family (ie. his son Gabriel). The flashback not only shows more depth for Miguel’s character, but also alludes to his lack of a stable family life from the 90’s comics and him trying to rectify that in this alternate dimension (ie. Miguel fixing his relationship with his brother Gabriel by having a child named after him). This could extend to Miguel resolving his romantic relationships, that’s always been a point of contention, by potentially ending up with Tempest Monroe (from the 2015 run), Dana D’Angelo (his Gwen Stacy from the 90’s run), or Xina Kwan (his MJ from the 90’s run).

Despite Miguel’s insistence on “canon,” the fact that he exists is antithetical to this belief since his story should have ended due to the 90’s series’ cancellation. This could also explain why this Miguel dons a completely new physique and suit, along with having sketch lines in his design as he’s essentially writing a new narrative for himself.

I have not read the 2014-2015 volumes of the 2099 series, but from what I heard, these volumes completely deviated from the original 90’s run, with the majority of series being set in 2015 with Miguel having a happy ending with Tempest and their son by living on a remote island after his reality has been destroyed (an inverse on how ASTV Miguel inadvertently destroyed the alternate dimension). From a writing standpoint, it’s interesting to see a futuristic character adapt to modern times, but from a character standpoint (where the 90’s and 2014-2015 issues are in tandem with one another), Miguel seems like he’s going to the past to escape his past that takes place in the future. With ATSV Miguel choosing to live in an alternate dimension where he’s happy and has a stable family life, it parallels the way the 2015 run kinda ignores the 90’s run and just lets Miguel be happy. While it’s a nice sentiment, it prevents ATSV Miguel from fixing the interpersonal issues that plagued him in his home dimension and thus truly achieving a balance between responsibility and love that all Spiderpeople learn.

Beyond the Spiderverse will likely end with Miguel joining Miles’s side or the two finding a healthy balance point regarding canon events. However, I figure that besides Miles (and Gwen!), out of anyone who should oppose the idea of canon events, it would be Miguel as his canon story that is likely based on his 90’s run and has already been set in stone due the comics’ real-life cancellation. This in turn causes his character to end up alone and his narrative to end on an unfulfilling note (kinda mirroring Peter B’s starting point in Into the Spiderverse). By lacking a resolution, combined with the guilt of destroying an entire universe for the sake of achieving such, ATSV Miguel is left jaded and gives into the fatalism of the Spider-Man narrative by living a life based on sacrifice. But just like how Miles inspired Peter B and Gwen to no longer be constrained by the narrative of isolation that entails from being Spiderman, maybe Miguel can learn from Miles that he can move beyond the constraints of his cancelled run and in live his own universe where he can write his own happy ending.

#miguel o'hara #across the spiderverse #into the spiderverse #gabriel o'hara #dana d'angelo #tempest monroe #xina kwan #miles morales #gwen stacy #peter b parker #gabriella o’hara #spiderman #spiderman 2099 #beyond the spiderverse #atsv analysis #spiderverse

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the-cat-and-the-birdie · 11 months

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Hobie Brown, Emotional Preparation, and the Art of Great Dialogue

Nearly all of Hobie's dialogue is written with his goal - protecting and preparing Miles for Miguel's abuse - in mind, even if it may not be obvious at first watch.

Here's an unhinged breakdown where I over-analyze literally every one of Hobie’s lines and explain how every sentence was written to contribute directly to Miles’ radicalization.

Hollywood. Pay your writers. (:

___________________________________________________

Hobie has around 10 minutes screentime total, but for the sake of introductions and this analysis, let's start at the end of the battle, and the beginning of the quantum hole.

Starting with his first line in the scene:

"I don't follow orders. Neither does he."

All morals considered, Hobie doesn't seem like the type to speak for someone who can speak for themselves - he's a punk after all. But here, he speaks for Miles. This line serves to tell Miles 'I don't respect them, why should you?', but funnily enough, it can also be a point to Jess, as if to say 'Miles isn't interested.' - even if he is.

"Bit much, innit?"

While, Hobie and Mile's next interaction is their exchange in the elevator, the scene leads to Mile's introduction to the Society. Miles gawks at the lobby, obviously impressed. Gwen affirms this awe, telling him 'this is just the lobby.' However, Hobie feels the need to chime in. His next dialogue 'Bit much, innit?' is a subtle nudge to Miles that the society is not a place to be in awe off. It's a spectacle, one that's a bit overdone. Knowing Miles now sees Hobie as cool, Hobie makes it known - he sees the Society as uncool.

"Gwendy, How much have you told him? About his place in all this? Maybe not enough."

'So what happened about that small elite strike-team?' - 'Most of these are part time.' This is by far one of Hobie's more interesting lines, and I wrote about it here. But in short, this is Hobie's soft but direct confrontation of Gwen. After Gwen lies to Miles in front of him, Hobie immediately asks how much Gwen has revealed to him. And when she tries to play it off, he openly says 'Maybe that's not enough.' He's not angry with Gwen, but he is disappointed, which in turn motivates him to have his discussion with Miles.

"Super humane, and not creepy."

One of my favorites, because it's hard to catch and to the point. After talking about Hobie and Gwen's mission history, they're taken to Margo and the control room. As Miles marvels at Margo and the Go-Home-Machine, and Gwen says she voted against it. However, Hobie says blatantly: 'Holy shit, Miles isn't this inhumane and weird???', validating that the Society is willing to do inhumane, hurtful stuff to those it deems 'misplaced'.

Next comes Hobie's confrontation with Miles.

Because Hobie knows this is his last movements with Miles before he meets Miguel, and this is where if final push of emotional support kicks in, before he goes quiet in front of Miguel.

And because this conversation is so well layered, I think it's best to go line by line. ______________________________

H: "Bet this doesn't even do anything." M: "Maybe it did before you ripped it out of a wall!"

Hobie has now confirmed that he'll be making an exit soon. And he begins his finally sweep of parts he needs for his watch, stocking up his pockets. He's not stealing to steal. He knows he's leaving and this is his last chance to get what he needs before he's out the door.

"Propaganda, bro! It's to distract you from the truth!"

HOLY SHIT I missed this one. Notice how in this shot, Gwen is not visible at all. Hobie notices they're out of hershot of her for the first time. And his first line is - 'Propaganda.' Their watches can take them anywhere. When Gwen needed to, she was taken to exactly where she needed in Mumbattan. But when they're heading towards HQ, Jessica makes them walk through the lobby. They could have been sent directly to Miguel's station, but instead she makes them do the whole tour, which serves as a flex of muscle. In order, Miles was shown the massive number of members in the Society, then their prisoners, then the go-home-machine. Only THEN can they see Miguel. All of which was intent to intimidate Miles on purpose. Hobie tells him directly: 'Everything you just saw was propaganda.'

M: And what's that?

"I ain't got a Scooby Doo, mate. Cause that's what they want."

One of the most iconic and notable of his quotes. Cockney aside, this line ties back in with his discussion with Gwen just a couple minutes before. They've done their tour and walk. Both Jess and Gwen have been given a chance to prime or explain to Miles anything, and both have chosen not to. So Hobie simply tells him, 'They want you in the dark. And they're sending you into a fight.'

The next line is:

H: Why do you want to be part of this lot? M: To get a watch. H: Make your own watch.

Miles sucks his teeth at Hobie.

Because of this - Hobie begins to change methods. Which I cannot stress is incredibly perceptive of him.

Miles is exasperated with him. So instead of dissuasion and making the society out to be uncool, he tries to turn Miles' attention towards his family.

"Bet you got a nice setup, huh? Nice parents?"

This line is a very well done one, with two things of notice. First, I find it interesting that the screenplay phrases this line as a question, not a sentence. Hobie is asking. He's taking a shot in the dark here. And this is backed up by his delivery; Hobie hesitates while saying this. The only line in which he does so. He may not know about Miles' mom and dad, because Gwen hadn't met them when she met Hobie. But still, Hobie asks, hoping the reminder of Miles' parents will dissuade him from continuing.

M: They're fine. H: [After this line, Hobie turns black and white momentarily. Potentially a nod to the fact that this conversation is the only 'black and white' one Miles has had so far.] M: But we got into a fight. They just want what's best for me, so...

[Hobie frowns. The scene and dialogue REALLY starts to pick-up from here.]

"That's a bloody shame. Because you're not ready for everyone else."

As the scene progresses Hobie goes from behind Miles, to beside him like an ally. Then, when Gwen finally comes back into frame, Hobie crosses in front of him. When Miles mentions his parents wanting what's best for him, Hobie warns that everyone else does not want what's best for him. At the same time, visually Gwen has her back to Miles, and Hobie puts himself between Miles and Gwen, trying to block his path. The scene is set up to show that in Hobie's eyes, Gwen is turning her back on Miles. She does not have his best interest in mind. Hobie is telling Miles 'They're using propaganda on you, they're keeping you in the dark, and they do not have your best interest at mind. You're not ready for this." And he physically tries to block Miles from continuing, one last time.

Miles goes through Hobie, and now within earshot of Gwen again, this is Hobie's final chance and push to get as much information into Miles as he can - without freaking Miles out. Above all else, he needs Miles to be prepared, confident, and willing to fight back.

His voice becomes more serious, and he starts speaking more straight-forward and a lot less cryptically.

"Listen to me, bruv. The whole point of being Spider-man is your independence. Being your own boss, you don't need all this!"

I think Hobie saying this reveals a lot about his character, especially understanding the context where he's from. While many Spider-men would agree that being Spider-man is about responsibility and power - to Hobie, it is about independence, and freedom. Hobie is a freedom fighter, and one of the only Spider-men besides Noir that knows how to fight systemic threats as well as physical ones. To him, being Spiderman is about being able to free yourself and others. It's about independence and freedom, and he's trying to nail that in Miles' head one last time.

M: Then why are you here?

"Looking out for my drummer, is all."

As the scene is coming to a close, the writers chose this time to reveal some of Hobie's motivations, starting with the independence comment, and now this. Despite knowing about Gwen's deception towards Miles, he is still looking out for her - and Miles. This is the writers' and Hobie's last push to solidify himself as an ally to Miles and the viewer.

M: I want to be in a band. I want to see my friends, and I need a watch to do that. G: Guys, come on.

"Alright, Squashed. Just don't enlist until you know about who you're fighting."

I genuinely had to sit and ask myself why the writers would choose to leave Hobie's collective effort - a LOT of effort - with this line. And honestly, I think it's a perfect segway. Hobie chooses his words very clearly; He doesn't say 'what', he says 'who'. The next scene leads into Miguel's intro, and up until this point, Miles doesn't know who he is. He only knows about the Society, but never who is at the top. We know about Miguel, but all Miles knows is his name. That's why Hobie says 'who you're fighting'. Because the Society isn't really a Society, and this isn't really between Miles and the Society at all. It's a dictatorship - and the person he's enlisting to fight is Miguel. The perfect introduction and warning to the person he's about to meet. He's telling Miles, 'Don't rush into it. Wait until you meet Miguel first'. And when Miles does meet Miguel, he finally sees that this isn't the place he thought it was, just like Hobie said. ALSO EVEN MORE INTERESTINGLY - THIS is one of the lines that is changed between the two versions of spiderverse (there are two theatrical versions on release.) In the alternative he says 'Don't enlist unless you know what war you're fighting.' And I think that the fact the writers chose to publish two different versions of this line goes to show how powerful they knew this line would be in Miles' characterization. There is so much Hobie has left to say to him, but only one line - and so we get two versions. How fun!

With the scene now over, we see a change in Hobie's demeanor, and I love the writers' choice to have the shot linger on Hobie.

We see him give Miles a look that isn't exactly full of confidence, but from this point forward, Hobie chooses to hang back, no longer having any motivation to instigate. He knows his work here is done, and now all he can really do is wait for Miguel to reveal his true colors, and hope that he got through enough to Miles that he will react, and fight back.

And closing out the scene - I noticed that when Peter B. arrives Hobie pointedly says

"Oh boy, Humbling Reality Spider-man has arrived."

All I'll say about this is Hobie has to be Jamaican cause that was so mfing rude shgjfkghjgjkdfjk

Hobie has about three lines between this point and then end of his screentime - Two of which were his lines to Mayday, and his comment during the canon events.

But there is one shot of him before it all happens. And after this shot the movie begins staging Hobie in specific a very different way than anyone else.

The moment begins with Miles' line 'My Dad is about to be captain.'

The camera pans to each character. Gwen, Peter, and Jess all avert their eyes. Miguel looks at Miles. And Hobie is the only one who looks at all of them. Instead of looking down, he looks to the others, in anticipation of whats going to happen. It's also important to note that this was probably news to Hobie. He probably didn't know Miles' dad was a cop - or at the very least going to be captain. So the understanding of just how much trouble Miles is in kinda multiplies in this moment.

Then, this happens

From this point forward, every time Hobie is portrayed, he is shown as separate from the other characters, always being divided from the group - with Miles as the divider. Even as the camera moves, Hobie visually remains - quite literally - as the only person in Miles' corner. And as the scene goes on, he moves farther and farther into that corner.

Until finally the scene comes to a climax, and Hobie gets two shots to himself - delivering his final lines.

"Here we go." - "Hobie, You're not helping." - "Good."

GUYS IM GONNA CRY OKAY IM GONNA CRY

This is Hobie seeing his work pay off. This is him knowing that he got through to Miles and that it was worth it. He's proud of him.

Hobie knew what he came to do, and he used literally every line he said to Miles to the FULLEST extent. He doesn't give a fuck if he's not helping the Society. He's helping Miles. And now he knows his work is done.

Being a punk is not about being a hero, it's about empowering those who feel powerless. HE UNDERSTOOD THE MOTHERFUCKING ASSIGNMENT.

IN SHORT - HOLLYWOOD PAY YOUR FUCKING WRITERS I SWEAR TO GOD.

if you read this far let me know :) thanks bye

#ill repost the ending as its own post as well yay #hobie brown #spider punk #spiderpunk #miles morales #gwen stacy #jessica drew #miguel o'hara #spiderman 2099 #atsv #atsv analysis #across the spiderverse #spidergwen #spiderwoman #peter parker #peter b parker

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whereconfusionisarhyme · 10 months

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okay the way the fandom draws hobie brown is such an interesting indication into the way subconscious racial stereotypes play into characterization and it's,,,it's just interesting.

now, i spend A Lot of time in this fandom. and something i've noticed a lot of is hobie brown being drawn HUGE. like, they're making mans into a TANK. and he's just,,,not that??

like yeah, he has broad shoulders, and he's tall, but that's literally just most any black teen boy let's be honest. if you look at his actual canonical character design, he is LANKY. and yet everyone is drawing him super buff. now at first i didn't think much of it--people like buff men, and fanartists are always gonna take some liberties (honestly, i love when they put their special little twists on the characters). but as i saw it more and more, it bothered me more and more and felt a lot more indicative of some underlying biases within the fandom.

hobie being mischaracterized and stereotyped isn't shocking or new, but that mischaracterization leaking into physical depictions of him is! not to get too deep into it, but throughout american history*, black men have not been able to protect their loved ones in any way other than physical thanks to slavery and horrid mistreatment within an inherently racist system. thus gave birth to the trope of the big, aggressive black man who solves his problems with his twists. and after that, the big aggressive black man who is actually a sweetheart on the inside, but just has raging anger issues (and probably an abusive father as well).

*im aware that movie!hobie is not american and that not the entire fandom is either, but seeing as a large chunk of it is, and are going to be viewing hobie through an american lense, i think this is an appropriate connection to make. also, african slavery was very much a thing outside of america as well. also ALSO, the rest of the worlds perception of black men is affected by american (and english) views just because of how huge the two countries are within the global landscape.

now, the reason this was even bothering me at all in the first place is because when i first watched the movie, the fact that hobie wasn't overly muscular was super novel to me. i was glad that we got to see a black male character who was strong without taking strength from others, loud without obnoxiously talking over others, violent without being aggressive, assertive without being framed as forgetting this place or naive about the world. in terms of personal experience, it pisses me just that bit more than the last time whenever i hear my father insist to my (very sensitive and emotional) brother that the proper way to deal with any and every problem was by fighting. i was glad my brother (severely lacking in good black male role models) got to see this cool guy, someone you're meant to look up to, who is strong without being ripped and punching all of his problems. that black masculinity is more than how well you can fight.

so, the way a lot of the fandom forces hobie into this box, this preconceived idea of what a black man (or boy, more like, but the erasure of childhood from black kids is a topic all its own) should be, just. sits wrong.

#i have these kind of analytical thoughts about fanart depictions concerning all of the main four btw #so tell me if you wanna see me ramble about why miles doesnt get this same treatment despite also being a black boy #or why pavitr is chronically de-buffed (its not *just* cause hes asian)#when az rambles #across the spiderverse #spiderman atsv #atsv #hobie brown #hobie brown analysis #atsv analysis #fandom analysis

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hobiebrownismygod · 7 months

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hey how about a margo study (spiderbyte). she has so little screentime and as far as i know no real comic book lore

Researching Characters so you don't have to Part 6: Who is Margo Kess/Spider-byte?

Origins:

Margo Kess lives in a time where everyone spends most of their time in VR. If you've ever seen Ready Player 1, its a really similar concept. Everyone has their own virtual avatar and they all exist in a place called Cyberspace.

She hooks herself up to this network through a computer in her school's computer lab, and connects to her avatar, Spider-byte, that way. She thinks of herself as a kind of community service member, and spends her time tracking down cyber-criminals and helps people.

Powers:

She's not your average avatar. Her intellectual prowess and great knowledge of computers helped her hack the network to create these powers for herself. She can teleport through Cyberspace and uses her arms can stretch like we saw in the spiderverse movie.

She programmed her skills and armor to boost her speed and strength all by herself. Her cybernetic armor provides protection and keeps her identity a secret.

In the comics, Ghost Spider eventually recruits her to fight the Inheritors, but thats not really a part of the Margo Kess character we saw in the spiderverse movie so I'm not gonna get into it.

But other than that, there's really no other information about her origins or her powers. She doesn't have her own comic series, but hopefully she gets one eventually!

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nyxchipz · 6 months

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What if I wrote an entire video dissecting every single argument about Hobies age to figure out once and for all how old he is.

Wouldn't that be silly

Wouldn't that be absurd

Wouldn't it be crazy if I was already a good chunk done writing the script

Ngl I know I'm not really known for this kind of thing but I'm tired of seeing so much discourse about it that I want to compile every piece of evidence I can find and deal with it once and for all so we can get over it and stop attacking people for their ships or for simping or whatever.

Do you want to know what the conclusion of the video is?

Spoiler alert: You literally can't possibly know how old he is because there isn't a single piece of evidence proving his age without a caveat of some sort.

But the point of the vid isn't really the conclusion, it's kind of just to have as a reference. So if anyone wanted to try and invalidate or attack on someone's view of Hobie's age then they can either be directed to my video OR they can be directed to one of the things I sourced in my video.

Anyway part of the reason I'm making this post is because I have a habit of writing scripts for vids and then abandoning them so I hope by telling people I'll feel more of an obligation to actually do it.

But the other part is because I am collecting as many arguments as I can about hobie's age and I know I'm definitely going to miss some so I wanna hear what other people think. If you want to share arguments or opinions then feel free to dm me or comment, I want to hear it! Just be civil, this isn't about proving you're right, this is about coming to a constructive conclusion.

Anyway uh pray that I actually make the video

#spiderpunk #spider punk #hobie brown #across the spiderverse #atsv analysis #atsv #atsv theory #across the spider verse #spiderpunk theory #spiderpunk headcannon

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meatdagger · 1 year

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a theory: miles' dad does not have to die to save earth-1610

the reason why miles' dad has to die (according to miguel o'hara) so it won't cause a disruption in the canon event. it was shown that every spider has gone or will go through it (captains being killed, losing people they love, etc).

including gwen's dad who was a captain, before he decided to quit when gwen was being sent back home. when her dad said that he quit, she realized that he doesn't have to die to save her universe.

miguel said that miles wasn't the real spiderman, since the spider that had bit him was from earth-42. miles was from earth-1610. he also said that miles being a spiderman led the death of earth-1610's current spiderman.

i think that miles' dad doesn't have to die since miles is not earth-1610's spiderman. earth-1610's spiderman was killed by kingpin, and miles was never meant to be a spiderman in the first place.

the consecution of wrecking the canon is having an universe gone, poof, like what had happened to miguel's earth. to not let that happen to earth-1610, miles would have to let his father (who would become a captain) die. "... saving too many captains..."

but since miles wasn't meant to become a spiderman on earth-1610, i don't think it's something he would have to go through. the original earth-1610's spiderman must've gone through that, since he was meant to be a spiderman.

whatever origin story he may have had, had come from his own universe. unlike miles who was bitten by a radioactive spider from earth-42.

so i think, miles is basically a cross-dimensional spiderman. since he wasn't meant to be a spiderman on earth-1610, he doesn't have to sacrifice anyone to save his universe. because the original earth-1610's spiderman might have done it before he died.

and the vision he had with spots (before alchemax's building collapsed in mumbathan because spots himself) is probably a vision of the future (take this with a grain of salt tho). gayatri's dad was supposed to die (according to miles' vision, and the canon) but miles saved him, and earth-50101 was threatened to collapse. this proves that a canon event could be stopped.

and somehow the scene where a lot of spideys came to earth-50101 to, supposedly, fix the canon; imo, it feels like it was cleaning up spots' mess instead of fixing the canon.

and when miles asked in the spidey hq, how can they be so sure that someone has to die to save the universe; i think their answer was along the lines of "because the algorithm said so".

the problem is that the algorithm could probably only predict something that had happened over and over again. like if you put an ice cube outside and it's summer. you'd know that it's going to melt.

but miles wasn't something that had happened before. his case is new. a cross-dimensional spiderman. and applying an algorithm that only fit into non cross-dimensional spideys, would definitely not work.

he might have his own canon paths to go, and no one knew what it is.

and i think we have another problem: there was no spidey on earth-42, because it had bitten miles. and whoever this probable spidey might be, they were meant to be one but it's not probable now.

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