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thebeautysurrounds · 2 months

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I’ve been thinking a lot about how people’s reactions to certain queer shows and something I think we need to examine how we treat more ‘dark’ and ‘emotional’ shows versus more ‘happy’ shows in this case I’m gonna be talking about the “debate” between Young Royals and Heartstopper.

Firstly these shows exist in two different lanes, and draw in two different audiences and potential age ranges, in my opinion, Young Royals is for older teenagers (think juniors or seniors or someone who is about to graduate high school and is going into college) while Heartstopper is geared towards those who are just starting high school or in the middle of it and is in that transitional period of their lives. Obviously, if you are not in these age ranges you can still consume and enjoy these shows, But I want to discuss how people act like they both can’t exist and you can’t like both or both shows existing for a reason. I’ve never really been a fan of punching down or belittling queer media (unless it’s harmful) Queer media in all forms is still lacking (especially those mediums centering WLW relationships). That being said the debate of which show is better is honestly so tired.

For people who say Young Royals is so much better (don’t get me wrong it is an amazing show and by all means like whatever you want) but liking it more because it’s “darker and more realistic” compared to Heartstopper which is "much happier" and "unrealistic," To me is so disingenuous because firstly so what? campy shows that feature queer characters deserve to be unrealistic, What's wrong with being unrealistic? Queer media has been subject to the Burry Your Gays narrative for decades or extremely unhealthy tropes and storylines so what's so wrong with having storylines and shows that are unrealistic or extremely happy? (even though the themes in Heartstopper are realistic).

Have you thought about how that may be an intentional choice? Now bare with me here this may be my over-analytic brain at work but Heartstopper has more or less some of the same themes as Young Royals just shot in a very vibrant and colorful manner to showcase how happy and colorful young love is BUT if you actually have watched the show or read the graphic novels you would know the show and graphic novels cover some heavy themes.

SPOILERS AFTER THIS POINT……

I want you to keep the song Pumped up Kicks by Foster the People in mind throughout this...I have a point I promise. Heartstopper is shot in a very poppy colorful way and in my opinion, symbolizes how when you’re young and in love everything feels warm, colorful, and vibrant. While Young Royals doesn't utilize this cinematic style they do use some form of vibrancy to convey tone and emotion. In Young Royals many of the scenes featuring Simon and Willhem's 'good moments' feature the sun especially shining on Simon when Willie is looking at him or whenever they are just in each other's company, this is especially prominent in the last scenes of the last two episodes of season 3.

So while people's criticisms of Heartstopper can be warranted (not saying you can't dislike the show) the comments that it's just so bubbly and bright just aren't true. The last season of Heartstopper saw multiple characters go through traumatic situations and it has been building up that way from the very first scenes in the first season of the show (but for the sake of time I'm only going to discuss both main characters in the two shows) Charlie not only is still struggling with being outed but is also battling with an eating disorder, this is foreshadowed throughout the first two seasons leading up to its inevitable blatant reveal when he is at dinner with Nick and his family where Nick starts to piece together why he is never hungry, passed out on the Paris trip and never finishes his food, which leads his to eventually research the signs of an ED. Nick is also still figuring himself out when it comes to his Bisexuality, while also dealing with the feelings of, feeling abandoned by his father, and having to reckon with the fact his brother is not supportive and dismissive of his sexuality and relationship.

Now before I said keep Pumped Up Kicks in mind that's because while this song has an upbeat, catchy tempo the song actually has a really dark undertone and meaning. So while Heartstopper is shot in a very vibrant colorway most of its characters and content of the show deal with dark themes and it's not all just a happy love story, and if the script for the next season follows the graphic novel closely, then we will see the characters go through even more challenges which also falls inline with the "darker" more emotionally message of the show. So to end this so it doesn't become a dissertation, both shows more or less have the same themes they just exist in two different lanes, I don't know why exactly people are fighting for one to be more valid than the other. When both can exist and be impactful to both or each audience, more queer shows need to exist where the characters are just happy and in love and I need y'all to unpack why you view more doom and gloom (for a lack of a better word) queer shows or movies are more valid than ones where the characters are just happy and have relatively in some aspects great experience when it comes to young love and figuring out one's identity. Sepreatlty why do you want these characters to suffer to find love? Why do characters have to go through something traumatic for their identity to be more valid and for you to relate and want to root for it more versus the latter?

Anyway, this was longer than I intended it to be but I just had to get my thoughts out there. TL;DR: Heartstopper and Young Royals are two great shows and if you think one is better than the other cause it has darker themes you are missing the point or probably objectively missed the dark undertones of the show, and one isn't more valuable than the other.

#young royals #heartstopper #queer shows #lgbtqia #queer media #rant #anaylsis #netflix #nick nelson #charlie spring #nick and charlie #simon eriksson #willhem #prince wilhelm #simon and wilhelm

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thestobingirlie · 6 months

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To answer your Byler question: it’s about the slow burn of it all and about the audience that the story will reach. I don’t really know what you mean by “with gay rep the way it is now” because the state of gay rep rn is just two characters getting together after a few episodes of no buildup. Regardless of Will and Mike being white (which I’m going to assume is what you’re getting at), there are very few modern gay stories out there that spend this long on a slow build and the careful construction of a seasons-long sexuality arc. That is what would make Byler so unique if it ever becomes canon, compounded by the fact that ST is the most mainstream of mainstream shows. This isn’t Heartstopper or Schitt’s Creek or another gay show whose audience is limited because it’s targeted specifically to gay people — Everyone and their mother watches it, and that means that everyone will end up witnessing Byler’s story if it happens. That is what would make this special and groundbreaking.

Of course, no one should be dismissing the importance of Robin as a character on her own, and lesbophobes claiming that Robin and Vickie mean nothing is unfair, but your point about it being the other way around (aka Byler meaning nothing Vickie and Robin as a couple) doesn’t make any sense, as Rovickie has had barely had 5 minutes of screen time together compared to the way Byler has been built up since S1. Even Robin and Nancy got more screen time than them, hence Rovickie’s complete lack of popularity. Stranger Things had the opportunity to make Vickie important in s4 and chose not to do it. It’s no different than any other show, where as you said, the wlw couple is just in the background. It’s nice that ST included a love interest for Robin, but it would have been more meaningful if she was actually a character in her own right.

(And Robin and Vickie are also white, btw.)

okay.

first, i would like you to watch more gay shows, because from the sounds of it you are not very well versed. but that’s okay!

second, i mentioned will and mike are white because while there are a lot of white mlm ships around nowadays, that number obviously drops with gay characters of colour, and i wanted to be clear i was taking that into consideration.

third, and i presume this is where our opinions majorly differ, i don’t think will’s sexuality arc has been handled as well as it could have been. and i think if the majority of the audience is unable to recognise that mike is going through a sexuality arc, then byler won’t be recognised as a slowburn anyway.

fourth, other shows have been popular and included gay characters and couples. and people are already calling stranger things a “gay show” because they have one lesbian and one gay character. though i think it’s very sweet that you think people, at the bare minimum, watching byler happen will make byler groundbreaking. a ship isn’t groundbreaking just because it’s been seen by a certain amount of people.

now, you seem… riled by my comparison of rockie to byler lmao. i think you misunderstood my tags. so i suppose there’s a few things to address with this too lol.

so. i very very much so doubt byler has been built from s1, because the duffers didn’t plan past s1. we were never going to see those characters again. the duffers are largely making this shit up as they go along.

a lot of bylers i’ve seen on tumblr seem to have this… obsession with making stranger things the mike and will show, and it just isn’t. and i think they’re doing a disservice to the characters and the ship by imagining this importance.

and i don’t think rockie not having a main part is a bad thing. i want my gay characters to exist past their sexuality. rockie isn’t groundbreaking! so many ships have come before it lmao. but it doesn’t need to be groundbreaking. i’m okay with vickie being introduced this season as her love interest, and robin having a life and arc outside of vickie. that’s how most side romances go. that’s what happened with dustin and suzie! if vickie receives no time at all in s5 and rockie end up together off screen, then yes, obviously i’ll be annoyed at the lack of time given to them. but that’s a problem for future me.

my point was rockie having their moment, and dating, and us watching it throughout s5 would mean more to me than byler happening. not that everyone shouldn’t care about byler rep lmao.

(and i know rockie are white, babe, but wlw shows are being cancelled regardless of if they’re both white)

#stranger things #asks #anon

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alexzalben · 2 years

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From your standpoint why are all of the WLW shows getting canceled? Like First Kill compared to Heartstopper.

Is it really money or is it an ulterior motive? I don't have enough knowledge about bts TV producing to know.

Thanks.

I'm extremely hesitant to wade into this because there are a lot of heated feelings all over. My initial reactions to this ask are, though:

Do not love how everyone is pitting Heartstopper against First Kill. They are two very different shows, and I understand they're both Netflix, both LGBTQ+, etc; but why throw them against each other? I understand the comparison of the stats, but the Heartstopper folks are working their hardest just like the First Kill folks. There's also a WLW couple on Heartstopper. Who are awesome. So, you know. There's that.

I don't think there's a sinister conspiracy at play to cancel WLW shows, and every show is pretty much its own case, with some overlaps of course because it's not a completely closed ecosystem. First Kill was canceled for reasons that are different than why The Wilds was canceled, which was different from reasons why, say, Legends of Tomorrow was canceled.

THAT SAID. And from my perspective, this is the most important takeaway: WLW shows and the audience are being undervalued, and underserved. Even if the reasons the individual shows were canceled are isolated, like I said, it's not a closed ecosystem; and these constant cancellations lead to an alarming and toxic trend, to say the least. It cuts down on important voices, cuts down on visibility on screen, and makes the audience feel like their viewership habits don't matter. It's gross, and it needs to be considered more strongly when these types of cancellation discussions come up. I don't think any of this will change any time soon because the algorithm is god and money is the key factor in decisions, so I tend to be pretty pessimistic about this. But shouting from the rooftops that this isn't right is really the best way to go, and the only thing you can do.

I dunknow, I hope I didn't start a firestorm here, these are just my thoughts and opinions. Regardless of what you thought about any of these shows, or what I thought, they meant something to people, and I get that these cancellations hurt. But like I said, it's part of a larger trend that, whatever the intention, has longer lasting, harmful effects. Hopefully there will be some turnaround, at some point. In the meantime, keep supporting the shows you want to support, just know that heartbreak will come at some point; no show is forever, and some shorter than others.

#first kill #heartstopper

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dinobot900 · 2 years

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ok so I’ve just finished The Wilds s2 and there is a lot to unpack... spoilers below

first off, we really need a season 3 now. I’ll admit though this season had its flaws, the ending was good. I can’t imagine any of the other girls being the operative- like it’s a good cliffhanger but the we as a audience have learned to love the girls and I think if one of them is reveled to be another operative it will ruin that. I hope its the boys that are the operatives.

now lets talk about the main stars of the show - the girls:

shelby & toni - i love them, they have become my comfort ship. I think the writers did them justice too, ofc there can also be more wlw representation but compared to what we are used to, it was quite good. they had very cute moments but also real moments. they communicated which is so refreshing to see. it’s a healthy relationship. I don’t know if they have broken up. I want to say no and that they are just going through a rough patch. I think how it all went down with Martha was perfect like they both know the other so well. some things to note as well that I though was good: Martha being happy for shoni, “babe” & “bee”, Toni being a a fat fucking simp, HONESTY, Shelby cutting her hair (hot). I will also add since season 1 I was waiting for a bunker reunion ( I’m a sap for a fucking reunion) and I was not pleased with what I got.

Ok let’s talk about Leah and Rachel: Loved it. Loved their whole relationship, the co dependency, the “we’re both fucked might as well be fucked together” attitude. Some of their scenes were the best in the whole show and made me laugh so much.

Leah fucking wins: big props to Sarah Pigeon. Some of the best acting I’ve seen in along time. The facial expressions that sly looking at the camera. Fucking amazing. Also the Ben folds bit - top notch. And she’s confirmed bi!?! Hats of to all you leatin stans

Dot: I’m sad dot got less screen time I mean she deserved better!!!

Martha: I feel for her. So much. She deserves so much more. I liked that she didn’t want to break up Toni and Shelby ( like you lot were speculating). I’m glad she’s ok and I hope she’s not the operative. She has too much to deal with already.

That’s brings me on to Fatin: I love the mom bit that she really truly cares for them all which makes my heart warm. She really is the rock of the group. The scene with fatin and Shelby under the tree is so wholesome they both understand each other so well.

I will only say this about the boys: I gave them a chance like the cast said to and I mean it’s not like they were bad. It’s just I didn’t care about them. I started to watch this show because of the girls and I still watch because of the girls. I understand they wanted to expand with the boys being added but I felt like they could of done that with out going into as much detail as they did. I was fully sucked into the girls scenes then the boys came on screen and each time I lost more and more interest in them. But I will say Kirin best boy and Henry singing mcr was actually fucking great. Oh and fuck Seth.

Overall this season was very good, I don’t know if it’s season 1 good but if you forget about the boys a bit and focus on the girls it’s actually alright

I want to add my favourite scenes were all girl scenes obviously but three that stand out are the singing home scene, the unpacking of the party box and Shelby going beast mode on planing a birthday party.

This season was very funny and I enjoyed that.

If you haven’t read the fields notes I recommend, my favourite one is that Toni owns up to her farts.

Lastly I want to say that these are my opinions and you do not have to agree with me. They are also subject to change as I will rewatch over the next few weeks and change my overview completely.

Thanks for reading my unhinged thoughts (it’s currently 3am and I haven’t slept in over 24 hrs :) & sorry for my bad spelling and grammar )

xoxo dino :)

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lee-scribbles-and-doodles · 3 years

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I decided to give I Am Not Starfire a chance and... frankly I personally didn't like it that much. I don't hate it, but I'm also probably never going to reread it. I'm going to make this semi-review/reaction as fair as I can. Also these are just my opinions, so if you disagree with them just take them with a grain of salt and move on.

So one red flag that DID get obliterated was Mandy's last name being Koriand'r. It's, thankfully, just Anders. Not sure if this was changed mid production due to backlash or if the ad makers just screwed it up, but whatever.

Just 11 pages in (4 of which are the cover and credits) Mandy is already slutshaming her own mother for the way she dresses. /sarcasm/ Great way to get you to like the character. /sarcasm/

Starfire has an absolutely hideously drawn thigh gap in her introduction page.

Just about the only thing the comic does right in depicting teenagers is Mandy and her friend Lincoln, who both seem dedicated to being edgelords, incorrectly labeling themselves anarchists despite being the typical anti-establishment type teen. I knew and do know a lot of teens who act like this. Any other attempts to write teens here are, frankly, cringe worthy.

This Starfire is clearly based on her 2003 counterpart, which seems odd because this book is marketed towards teens, and that show aired and ended in 2006. For context, I'm 24 now, and that show would have ended when I was about 9. I'm just barely a Gen z. Most people who are actually teens right now would primarily associate this Starfire's characterization with the TT Go! spinoff... which I believe has the target audience of 4-7 year olds. It just seems like a weird decision to not go with her comic personality in this context.

The narrative very directly tries to compare the conflict between Star and Mandy as being similar to that of immigrant parents and their children... which I guess is there, but the story itself doesn't do much with that premise. Unfortunate, as I feel more focus on that could have actually made the story interesting.

Mandy is an extremely toxic person, as she's one of those "I'm not like other girls" characters, and that makes her very hard for me to sympathize with.

I've seen defenders go "Of course she's toxic she's a teenager" but like... the narrative clearly wants us to sympathize with her, but her behaviour at certain points makes that extremely difficult. She's mean to literally everyone other than Lincoln, often for no reason whatsoever.

Just about the only thing that I'm able to sympathize with her is some of her classmates harassing her about the Titans, and the fat phobic comments she gets. However, that can only justify her behaviour to a certain extent.

The sad thing is I WANT to like Mandy, as it's rare to get fat lesbians (or fat wlw in general) in media but she's just so... ugh, at points. She's also fairly generic in terms of female YA protagonists. I feel like I've seen her a million times, with the only difference being she's not straight.

Her completely blowing up over a selfie that Claire took is stupid. She doesn't even bother to explain why it upsets her, she just yells at this poor girl and storms off. Claire is then the one to be made to apologize, despite Mandy's blatant over reaction and unwillingness to communicate.

The way the story uses Gen z stereotypes to try to relate to its audience is the kind of thing I found extremely cringy when I was teenager. Judging from some reviews I've read written by actual teens, the feeling seems to be present here for the target audience to at least some extent.

(Think how 90s cartoons and teen sitcoms had an overabundance of skateboarding and rap to try and be "cool with the kids." Yeah, it's like that but with social media and boba tea).

"It's not fun, it's hamlet" is an actually legitimately funny line imo.

Also her bird is cute.

I like Claire's fruit backpack.

Honestly, one of the only genuinly positive things I can say about this is that I like the overall art style.

For some reason Blackfire decides to attempt to kill Kori and Mandy at her school instead of taking them to Tamaran? Petty queen, ig.

Blackfire is extremely underutilized. She spends the majority of the comic spying on Mandy before the big fight.

Mandy, at the very least acknowledges she was a shitty daughter towards the end, and seems to be making attempts to be less so in the epilogue.

Her new superhero costume is lame tbh. It's just typical goth clothes with bracelets and a tiara.

Still kind of annoyed that Claire had to apologize over a selfie and that Mandy's over reaction wasn't really called out.

Other than the selfie thing, Mandy's crush on Claire is cute.

So basically, not nearly as terrible as I was worried it was going to be, but it's otherwise pretty standard YA that doesn't do much new aside from being connected with DC Comics. If you're into that kind of thing, it'll be a pretty standard read but otherwise not super remarkable imo.

Side Note: Raven is pretty in this.

Also, she and Gar snuggling is cute.

ALSO, absolutely obsessed with this image of Gar.

What the dog doing?

#i am not starfire #mandy anders #kori anders #koriand'r #kory anders #starfire #raven #rachel roth #gar logan #garfield logan #beast boy #changeling #victor stone #cyborg #dick grayson #nightwing #komand'r #blackfire

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maybeacrowdedmind · 3 years

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Loss of Healthy Rep

It is with a heavy heart that I tell you all that Freeform has decided not to renew the comedy series by Josh Thomas, Everything's Gonna Be Okay, for a third season. :(

I'm so sad about this because not only was it an incredibly relatable show, it is the only one I've ever seen to represent the autistic community respectfully. All autistic characters were played by autistic actors, and each autistic character's autism manifested differently, which is something I had never seen before this show came out. Kayla Cromer (Matilda), Lillian Carrier (Drea), Carsen Warner (Jeremy), and Josh Thomas (Nicholas) are all autistic actors who played autistic characters in this show and they all did such a beautiful job. Shows like these that show autistic representation authentically are so rare, and it was actually making this show that led Josh Thomas to getting diagnosed as autistic. This show not being renewed for a third season is not only a loss of representation for the autistic community, but the LGBTQIA+ community as well. EGBO featured two non-heterosexual relationships, Nicholas and Alex (an interracial mlm relationship) and Matilda and Drea (a wlw relationship where one partner (Drea) identifies as a homoromantic asexual and the other (Matilda) is either bi- or pan- romantic and heterosexual (if I worded this or got Matilda's orientation wrong, please forgive me, I'm doing my best). Having not one, but two LGBTQIA+ relationships are rare enough, but even more so when you account for the fact that there is an interracial one and the other is wlw (which I've heard is pretty rare when it comes to fiction) and has one partner who is asexual. As I'm not under the LGBTQIA+ umbrella, I'll leave a more in-depth discussion on this topic to those who are much more qualified than I.

The other thing that saddens me about the cancellation of Everything's Gonna Be Okay is the fact that until this show came out, I had never seen any autistic characters that were a) played by autistic actors, b) weren't stereotypical ableist caricatures, and c) actually had autistic girls represented. The last point is a really big one for me because before EGBO, I had never seen a female autistic character on a tv show. Every single one I saw was male, and they were always the same carbon copy of outdated stereotypes (the savant who is emotionless and insensitive, but his savantism excuses his every action because he is a "poor precious baby" who just can't help that he's practically an infant). On a semi-unrelated note, the fact that Savant Syndrome is the most used autism trope is completely hilarious and borderline laughable to me because people who are savants are extremely rare. The "poor baby" stereotype is also incredibly infantilizing and can be really frustrating to the autistic community. I was also super happy about there being autistic girls represented because I have so few characters in fiction who are like me, and seeing Matilda and Drea was so great to see, and I mourn the fact that because it got cancelled, so many autistic girls won't be able to see autistic characters like themselves onscreen.

Lastly, this show was pretty progressive when you think about it and it made a point to focus on topics that most people avoid on television (like those small margins of grey area in regards to subjects that are typically very black and white) and when differences in communication styles happened, the show never painted one way as the right way, which is very important. EGBO also showed characters doing and feeling things that so many people can relate to (like talking and being curious about sex, being nervous to meet your SO's friends, wanting to fit in while being uncomfortable fitting in, etc. etc.) and it did it in a way that didn't feel overly produced; it felt raw and real, which made the interactions between the characters organic and not like it was acting.

In conclusion, I am so disappointed that Everything's Gonna Be Okay was cancelled by Freeform because it had such amazing representation and as an autistic girl who had never had an autistic character who was female to relate to, I am disheartened and worried that I won't be able to see characters like these any time soon.

(Side Note: the fact the EGBO, which had autistic actors playing autistic characters, making the characters authentically portrayed, was cancelled after two seasons while Atypical, which has a neurotypical actor as the main autistic character (and is often treated more like a side character compared to the neurotypical characters in my opinion) and is often quite ableist and stereotypical in how it portrays autism (though there are parts of the show I like), got four seasons just feels unfair, you know?)

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pettyprocrastination · 3 years

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You don’t have to show this but do you think Omera would have gotten more love if she was white? I don’t ship it but her introduction was badass. I’m surprised that Din gets shipped with white bread so much. One he didn’t even speak to. The amount of fics for that compared to him and Omera is insane. I’m hoping they give him a Latina or black women love interest just to see people’s head explode.

I have ZERO issue with posting this publicly cause i wanna say: yes.

I apologize this isn't very well written and very scattered about but here are my thoughts.

PLEASE know I'm not trying to shame any specific writers or readers, I'm just sharing my opinions about the topic.

(in this I'm also gonna be bringing up Ellaria sand because this isn't something only seen with Din, its seen with just about all his characters)

I think it comes to three things that are very prominent in the pedro fandom specifically: white readers not enjoying content written by/presenting woc because they feel like it doesn't directly project themselves, having an odd animosity/jealousy towards romantic leads of pedro characters and flat-out throwing away the actual characterization of his characters just to thirst for him.

Now I will say we do have to acknowledge that I know people don't enjoy that he’s shipped with cobb vanth, because they only had a day of interaction but that’s also a mlm ship in the starwars universe so some people would like to see the representation where they can so lets keep that in mind.

But at the same time I kind of see the mentality of “oh, its not for me? nvm” from fans when the possible romantic character is a person of color because they cant directly relate/project onto them. Which you see a lot with poc writers who make fics that have readers/oc’s that are specifically described as not being white and getting little to no notes. while others making fics that are so specifically for white people with descriptors as such but not acknowledging it when people say “hey you cant really preach inclusivity when this is very clearly written by white women for white women” which you see in moodboards, face claims, and descriptors such as “you blushed bright red” “your pale skin” “your blonde locks” .

another BIG thing that has a part is this weird ass, juvenile wattpad-esque animosity female fans often have towards female characters who have the possibility of being a romantic lead for characters pedro plays. I know it sounds ridiculous to say, but so many fans do have this weird, almost jealous mentality to female characters who are romantic leads/have romantic tension with his character.

Like we see other female leads in the Mandalorian get lots more love than Omera, because they are mostly depicted as having a platonic relationship with Din. For exmaple, Fennec, cara, and peli, I've seen much more content for them than omera because its almost never in a romantic sense.

Hell, before gina carano’s shit went public people were always posting about thirsting for cara dune+ how she and din were best buds and loved the relationship between them.

And lets be real, the amount of fanfiction that the reader is essentially peli (a starky mechanic who befriends mando and becomes a kind figure to the child, who almost always becomes a live-in mechanic on the razor crest) is astronomical. You could literally switch the perspective and slap peli in and it’d make more sense but nobody wants to do that because they want to be with din, not imagine him with another female character cause they get weirdly threatened.

(no shade to people who write that fanfiction im just SAYING)

Its not just mando either, it happens with a lot of his characters who have distinct relationships already, especially with Oberyn Martell and his lover Ellaria. He says multiple times she is the love of his live, mother of three (i think) of his children and always accompanies him on his travels, when asked if he gets tired of her during their journeys he says “never. We share too much.”

a good majority of oberyn fanfiction either doesn't involve her at all, or writes her off as a bitch to pose animosity between her and the victim-reader or simply write her off as “she and oberyn don't love each other anymore wah-wah” even though she’s is quite literally his soulmate.

He’s also often written to become suddenly monogamous upon meeting the reader, which just seems out of character given he is an openly polyamorous, bisexual man that talks about the joys of living life and loving freely quite often.

Even with Marcus Moreno, when the trailer came out for We Can Be Heroes, I would see people make posts about how they hope he’s a widower instead of a married man cause they want him single.

Now I know a lot of this fandom is straight women so I don't expect them to suddenly enjoy wlw-reader relationships or polyships (even tho they do but only when its two dudes and one girl who is usually the reader but that’s a different issue) It comes down to the simple issues of throwing away the basis of the character just to thirst for pedro. (for oberyn at least)

I know some blogs on here that have gotten anons explaining the reason they dislike Ellaria that are the exact same traits Oberyn has: arrogance, sexual confidence ect. Its hot when he has it but if a female (often of color) has it, shes a bitch for some reason.

Not even gonna get into Dave York, who was a moderately enjoyable character in the film but his character in fanfiction a good 80% of the time is “i like to cheat on my bitch of a wife with you” so lets leave it at that.

Now. let me say there aint no shame in writing smut. I do it. I read it. And i enjoy it! But at somepoint you look at it and go “this isn’t even the character anymore” and find it a bit tiring. As well as the lack of attention writers of color get in the fandom where the main muse literally a latino man but whatever.

This was a very long winded way of saying yes anon, I do think omera wouldve gotten more attention if she was white. But even then people still wouldn’t like her because she would pose a threat to their reader-insets. what are you gonna do I guess lmao

#ask #asks #anyways this was very long and #not well worded im sorry. but thats my opinion on these things #kind of want to post this in the tags for oberyn and din #but i dont want that drama #just my opinion as a black bisexual in this hellfandom #anyways i also do work by the mentality of 'if you dont like it just block the tag'#but somebody asked for my opinions so i gave it #no shade to anybody who writes like this you live your life baby

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wastingoxygensince1983 · 3 years

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I think I can answer your Hosie question! I totally agree with you, when Hope mentions her crush it was from a time when they were clearly babies. Danielle Rose Russell’s consistency as the actress who plays Hope makes the STARTLING change from baby Josie to Kaylee Bryant Josie that much more noticeable. You as the audience go “you had a crush on a baby? Why?” I also think the Originals didn’t do Josie and Lizzie any favors in that regard since they made them look so goddamn small. They looked like they were 8 years old when they did the ritual to extract the Hollow out of Hope. If you ask my opinion, I think the “I had a crush on Josie for a week when we were 14” was just Hosie fan service. Not that I’m complaining, it’s nice to have some acknowledgment of the fandom. But I think it was just some scraps for the Hosie shippers like me. Personally, I don’t know much about the Originals. All my knowledge is Legacies so I try and only ship those two when they’re older because really, I’m with you. Baby Josie is such a baby it makes you go “why is that woman Danielle Rose Russell crushing on a child?” But they’ve got a great sister dynamic as well! I think Legacies really wants the audience to see Hope, Lizzie, and Josie as a sister triangle. As a Hosie shipper, I more so see the potential they have as a sweet relationship where Josie takes care of Hope who has basically been abandoned and Hope gives Josie that extra special attention she really deserves for coming in second-best all the time. I don’t use the “I had a crush for a week” reference as a justification. If anything, it’s a hurdle lol. Have a great weekend!

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

I love the reasons you gave for shipping hosie. Is such a Beautiful concept and even if I personally don’t ship it I totally see what you say.

I don’t want to mention the part about fan service because I’m not an actual shipper; but both that moment and the thing with the pig asking Hope to kiss her felt like fan service; and not about Hosie but about something I notice from Julie Plec in general, and that’s she won’t act in Hope as bi, more as mentioned it. She is full set on Landon and Hope, so I wonder if Hope would ever have a wlw relationship.

Yeah I feel like that line doesn’t go well with the previous canon we have on legacies, and I understand if we want to focus only on legacies and their interactions there; however I personally like to connect stuff and see things through. Is more a me issue than the show issue.

I would keep the idea that when Josie went from child Josie to Kaylee Josie that’s when Hope had a crush, and that way I would don’t invalidate something that could be important for your ship and would put aside the weird part of it.

Any person that would complain about that don’t understand vampire stuff. I mean Klaus was centuries old and Caroline was a kid. Same Elena compared with Stefan and Damon.

And I remember correctly Bonnie dated Elena’s brother which was way more younger than her.

To be honest I’m in a problem because Danielle has such an amazing chemistry with everyone but also Hope’s story works so well which each character in the show, that with Hope almost all the ships work.

I personally prefer Hizzie(and daydream about the crack ship Henelope), but I really see what you guys see when you ship hosie.

Also, while I have a lot of issue with Handon, I kind of like them in the low key manner; like when they danced on the originals, not them becoming the soulmate weird things they had set now.

Anyway, thank you so much for answering; you have an amazing ship with both actresses being the captains of it, which is an amazing add to it.

I hope the new season give you plenty of moments to enjoy.

#hosie #legacies #henelope #hizzie #danielle rose russell #hope mikaelson

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i-did · 4 years

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If you dont mind me asking, I'm really curious about your opinion of kevaaron as its growing increasingly popular. From the perspective of pairing a (bi?) guy with someone who is homophobic in canon. Often times it seems like Aaron overcoming his homophobia is rushed so that him and Kevin can get together.

Hey! So this is actually a very interesting ask because it shows how prevalent fanon is, that even you anon have stated that Kevin is bi and aaron is homophobic.

Aaron's homophobia is complicated but in my opinion there, especially considering it is 2006 and he is a straight guy. He definitely shows signs of being the "I'm not homophobic just don't shove it in my face/do stuff like that so public" type of homophobia. He is often HC as ace, sometimes ace/aro to combat this flaw and make him more likeable in a similar way people do with Kevin's homophobia.

Thats right! Kevin is probably homophobic! He never says a slur like seth, but going off of context he is about the level of homophobic as aaron, but in a much more dismissive rather than disgusted way. He says "it would be best for neil to remain heterosexual" (not a direct quote but you get the idea) this line is often used as evidence that kevin is bi in a similar way that Aaron's discomfort is used as evidence for him being ace. This type of dismissal and belief that being queer is a choice, is harmful. I've been told by a family member to stay in the closet because my life would be easier, and thats by someone who doesn't think its a choice.

Ace aaron isn't nearly the level of fanon as Kevin is bi is. But the other common HC of kevin is that he's ace/aro as well.

Again, as always, people can headcanon and interpret and interact with canon however they want. I think its just good to notice the line between fanon and canon. Fanon is inherently self indulgent.

I like to keep Aaron straight and homophobic because I think its important to show, and how people who are homophobic aren't secretly gay/bi the whole time trope. Also, ace people can be homophobic. Anyone can be homophobic. Its mostly straight people, but lesbians, bi non-binary people, ace women, gay men etc can be homophobic. Each group of queer person experiences homophobia uniquely, lesbiphobia is not the same as mlm homophobia, which is often based in femphobia, misdirected trans misogyny, and misogyny. And in fandom/media mlm homophobia takes on a whole entire form of fetishization (which isn't always inherently sexual).

Now! For my opinion on kevaaron.

I dont like it lol.

People can like what they like but personally if I don't like something I filter the tag and I have kevaaron filtered because I don't want to see it.

I think there is over emphasis on mlm ships with no chemistry over wlw ships that are arguably with more chemistry.

Overcoming your internalized homophobia is a real thing a lot of gay men have to face. And its hard, its really hard. And its not a thing to be rushed. A lot of peoples first gay relationship is really unhealthy because of this, dating someone who is closeted or freshly out, or being closeted or freshly out yourself is taxing.

Aaron and Kevin have less chemistry than renee and dan, (nora originally mentioned wanting them to maybe have something between them)

Most ships with aaron in my opinion seem to be based in the fact that it would be so cute for this short grumpy boy to be with someone so much taller, it also seems like a work around a lot of times with andrews trauma because you have his twin there.

Ships with aaron and matt are kind of funny to me because about all they share is a history with drugs. That's about it. Aaron is grumpy and matt is... actually not as sunny as fandom depicts him he's a lot more chill and less bubbly in canon but eh thats not really based in anything bad besides simplifying characters for fics and fandom.

I've never read a kevaaron fic but I wouldn't be surprised if they are rushed feeling like you said.

I still have internalized homophobia lol, and I've been out for 6 years now. its not an easy thing to undo.

Again I will state fandom is inherently self indulgent, I just also think that the core messages of the canon shouldn't be ignored and that people shouldn't say x charcters doesn't even have that flaw in canon. Characters are always multi faceted and complex if they're well written. They don't always have to be likeable. That's what makes them good, makes them foxes.

Its okay to like a character who is homophobic in canon and HC what you want, i have so many ideas for seth who I love, but I also want to make sure I dont fall into the "psych he wasn't a real homophobe-he was queer the whole time!" Trope because it inherently blames gay people for the homophobia they experience by making it a inter community issue where gay people just need to learn to not hate themselves, and "hahaha wouldn't it be so funny if this homophobe was gay, that'll show him" as if being gay and hating yourself and others is... a good thing to wish on others and the gay community. The truth is some, in fact most, homophobes are straight people.

That being said I have a headcanon that kevin is bisexual, aromatic, but is with thea his whole life despite neither of them not being very happy but content enough, he never realizes hes aro or bisexual, and it follows basically Nora's EC after that. And aaron is straight and haloy with kaitlyn but sometimes wonders if he held on so tightly and married her just because he already put in all that effort and not to prove his brother right when breaking up with her, but thats only when he's depressed otherwise he's happy and chillin.

There is a very low number of openly bi men compared to openly bi women "how many men would be bisexual if we let them" is a cool quote from tumblr, and an accurate one.

My headcanon isn't a happy one but in my opinion fits with canon pretty well which is why I like it. A lot of people don't ever fully find out who they are. That's the reality, and my fandoms elf indulgences are me giving myself more realistically canon "content" in my opinion. Thats how I self indulge but not everyone has to.

People who like kevaaron or aaron and matt, do you show the same support for renesion? For dan and renee, dan allison ? If not, why? They have the same level of chemistry, if not more.

Just some questions to wonder why you ship the things you do and why the bar for mlm chemistry is so much lower than it is for wlw chemistry.

#aftg #all for the game #ask #aaron minyard #matt boyd #kevin day #fandom politics #fandom psychology #mailob #fig writes

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welldressedllama · 4 years

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Fave characters from the last 5 things I’ve watched/read/seen/etc:

I was tagged by @a-lil-bi-furious forever ago, and I’m finally doing it. Yay. Go me. Long rambly post ahead.

1 - Isabelle Lightwood (Freeform’s Shadowhunters)

Izzy, Izzy, Izzy. There are so many good things to say about her. I love that she's so versatile; she's one of their best warriors, she's the Weapon's Master, she's a skilled forensic pathologist. She's incredibly intelligent and strong and also unabashedly feminine. She's faced demons and warlocks and rogue shadowhunters, and she beat them all in five-inch heels.

I love that she's so in control of and unashamed in her sexuality, despite her mother's and other's comments and snipes about it. She's gorgeous and enjoys sex and she owns it, and I'm so proud of her. I wish she got better love interests (like Clary), because I realize I didn't particularly like Raphael or Simon.

One of my favorite things of the whole show is her love for her family, most showcased with Alec. Her unwavering support in him, and trying to help him be his best, authentic self, is so pure, and her supporting him and Magnus is so refreshing compared he rest of their family just...not.

2 - Bonnie Bennett (The CW’s The Vampire Diaries)

Bonnie was my favorite from the moment I started (and probably one of my favorite characters of all time), and it broke my heart how the show treated her. She was a bold, brave, and powerful black Bennett witch who was controlled by racist writers and manipulated by selfish vampires.

But even with those obstacles, she did some incredible feats. She went up against (and beat) Originals multiple times, the first after she'd only been a practicing witch for a few months. She singlehandedly held back hellfire for a time and saved Mystic Falls (and all its residents' undeserving asses) numerous times and never got the appreciation she deserved.

She deserved her happy ending with Enzo and I will never forgive Plec (or Stefan) from taking that away from her. Even with everything she went through, she was kind, she was compassionate, she was understanding, and she was more forgiving than she probably should have been. Her interactions with Nora in season 7 warmed my heart.

3 - Maria DeLuca (The CW’s Roswell, New Mexico)

As Liz said, “Maria DeLuca is her own savior, every damn time.” And it's really unfortunate that the show (and the fandom) really make her keep proving it. This woman has so much on her shoulders, a sick mum and running a business. She's constantly alone, left out, and used as a prop for other's stories, and I hate it. Making her the obstacle for the fandom's favorite-gay-ship™️ was a bad move on the writers' part, and the treatment Heather Hemmens has received in playing her is horrendous.

With all that, Maria is still lively and outgoing and fun. Her wit is phenomenal, and any scene with her and Isobel snarking at each other is a hoot. Her little interactions with everybody are my favorite honestly. She's fiery and strong and bold, but I also so appreciate when we get to see her vulnerable. (Also, she looks like a goddess in that first gif.)

Full disclosure, I had a hard time deciding between Maria and Jenna Cameron as my favorite, and they literally have had like two scenes together at the end of S2 but I ship them hard. So if the show could just get on that, that'd be appreciated.

4 - Olivia Baker (The CW’s All American)

Words cannot describe how much I love Olivia. Just gotta get this out of the way, Samantha Logan is exceptionally gorgeous, and even my gay ass can't decide if I should pay more attention to Olivia or her brother when they're both on screen. But that's not important.

Something about Liv and her story just really resonated with me, and episode 1x12 had me bawling. Watching this good, kind, bright girl feel so alone and isolated was heart wrenching. She deserves the world, and I'm glad she's finding a good support system.

My favorite thing about Liv is how much she cares. If she sees something wrong or unjust, she does not hesitate to call it out, and if something is happening to her family or friends, she does everything she can to help. And that's a good thing, but I worry she focuses to much on others, at the expense of herself. I'd love if, in the coming season(s), she learns how to and is allowed to work on and take care of herself.

5 - Anissa Pierce (The CW’s Black Lightning)

My kick-ass superhero baby. She's a black, lesbian medical student and part-time teacher. Her love for her family is undeniable, as is her hatred if injustice. This drives her to become a vigilante superhero after only days/weeks of discovering her powers, and she fought her dad to a standstill (neither of them knew who the other was, but he was far more experienced than she was).

She's shown to be perhaps the physically strongest in the show (which I fucking love), and her fighting prowess is near unmatched. So like, that's obviously all cool, but it's only part of why I love her so. She's a force to reckoned with no matter what identity she's in (Anissa, Thunder, or Blackbird). She's passionate and loving.

Speaking of loving, her and Grace own my heart. An interracial wlw badass superpowered couple is basically everything I could want. They (and this whole damn show) are SO GOOD.

I'm tagging @rosaortecho and @wonderdoves, but like, no pressure. Or anyone who wants to, just say you were tagged by me so I can see y’alls opinions.

First Bonnie gif is from @bob-belcher, second from @imaginingxmen. For some reason I cannot get the formatting done with hers, just the others, so.

#i watch too many cw shows #shadowhunters #the vampire diaries #roswell new mexico #all american #black lightning #isabelle lightwood #emeraude toubia #bonnie bennett #kat graham #maria deluca #heather hemmens #olivia baker #samantha logan #anissa pierce #nafessa williams #tag games #llama's tagged #pretty women

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skamobsessi0n · 4 years

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Ranking Skam remakes based on ✨I S S U E S✨ I have with them. (I’m not bringing anybody down. I just have no friends that enjoy Skam enough to discuss this with. Not including OG, cuz it’s like comparing a blueprint to the final product) :)

Ps. It’s from worst to best ;)

P.p.s I don’t hate Skam France, I’m just an opinionated woman :)

🇺🇸 Skam Austin is so boring for me. It could be your favourite remake but it’s not mine unfortunately. I just feel like it’s too much like OG in the sense of how the story plays itself out but I feel like it also lacks authenticity, which is what made OG such a powerhouse. I guess maybe it’s cuz where I’m from high schools are more like in Europe rather than in the U.S, but I personally don’t really like Austin :/

🇫🇷 Skam France isn’t Skam anymore. Lol. I saw this post not that long ago about this exact subject, I forgot who made it but yeah. Skam France doesn’t give us the teenage angst, embarrassment, or authenticity that OG did. Example: The other remakes regardless of their social media presence make us feel like these are real people. The little extra seconds or split seconds when the clip is over and we get to see a glimpse into the characters life. The recent/known/popular music they use to further emphasize that these are kids, their vocabulary, the minor side storylines happening in a season that could last a few minutes or less. The side conversations, about random subjects. The absence of music to emphasize the importance of the storyline, to make us connect to each individual character. Skam France has a shield of sound, always playing, waiting to be played at least. Skam remakes are always great at touching base on important issues faced in reality and bringing it to life. Skam France however loves the theatrical of it all, the lighting, the music, the somewhat over the top storylines at once. I understand, a lot of people go through hardships and struggles, sometimes all at once, but this season feels very stretched out. I appreciate them tackling this subject, but there’s too much to unpack in such little time. Last season, demonstrated that not everyone gets a happy ending, but they quite literally ruined a fan favorite character. Arthur's season was a lot, and so little at the same time. Apart from his hearing loss and his love triangle, there was nothing beneath the surface.

🇩🇪 Druck. I felt such a disconnect to Druck, and I have literally no idea why. One of fav Noorhelm seasons, but apart from that it just fell flat for me. I love Mia and Alex so much tho omg. And with regards to authenticity they nailed it, but I just feel oddly off about it. “Everyone has a Skam remake that matches their personality and this one is...” not it for me.

🇮🇹 Italia. I LOVE Italia but they do lack the media presence other remakes have. And because of that damn Tim Vision a lot of people couldn’t see one of THE most anticipated seasons.

🇪🇸 España. I do be waiting for that Nora x Alejandro season 👀 for way too long. I really liked season one, season two was great, buttttt it was very underwhelming I was expecting the first wlw Skam storyline stand out much more than it did. Also f### Miquel. Loved the theme, hated the lack of recognition the season got. And...personally would’ve preferred having a Hugo season than having that strange Viri side perspective. Like imagine getting to know Viri from Hugo’s POV 👀

🇳🇱 NL. Literally the most aesthetically pleasing remakes. However, this isn’t a list praising that lol. Noah Boom..I love his aesthetic and how he differs from the other William remakes but there were a few cringey moments lol. The wedding dress scene was adorable but sooo funny omg. Also, if Eskild was a legitimate crossover then wouldn’t he have just dissproved the infinite universes applying to the Skam verse. But that could’ve also been an eskild from a different universe. Lot to think about.

🇧🇪 Wtfock. A bit of an organization issue, but each season improved little by little. Moyo's attitude when Robbe came out was not it sis. Noor and Britt not being a thing is a crime beyond belief. Britt can’t bring her next boyfriend within 100 feet of the squad. Jens not giving zendaya a 10. Senne's temper, he always has so much rage bottled up and he never acts on it. Our queen Yasmina getting barely any screen time last season. Sander cutting his fluffy white hair. Pain.

Final P.S I’m not saying Wtfock is the best and I’m not saying Austin is the worst. I’m only talking about prominent issues I personally have with them, and I’m no spokesperson for anyone. I actually think France is one of the best, but I still believe what I said. I never said it wasn’t good either, I just mean it isn’t like the other remakes anymore. Druck is a great example, I think it’s a great show it just isn’t my cup of tea. NL is great, Wtfock is great, Austin is great, Italia is great, Druck is great, España is great, France is great. I just have different opinions on each. So no this isn’t a hate blog. This is a blog from a girl with no other way to voice her opinions.

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andersfels · 4 years

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okay so. just to let tumblr know what is going on with twitter wrt the she-ra ending and what's blowing up on lesbian twitter, someone made a post celebrating canon sapphic couples, with she-ra, korra, adventure time, and steven universe.

then this fucking asshole made this comment on it:

...which was followed up by this comment of the asshole below him.

[a twitter retweet with the comment "girl on girl is the safest and laziest LGBT representation" by twitter user TroyVaderInk, with a comment below from twitter user UnHolySpork that says "its almost like they are completely fetishizing lesbian relationships and also completely ignoring that lesbian relationships are most often extremely abusive. EXTREMELY."]

and the overt lesbophobia is enough to be mad about, obviously. but this is getting under my skin for more than that, too.

so, contextually, the discussion these people thought they were having was pointing out how seriously hard it is to get m/m couples on a show like this. however, the conversation had instead was this extremely offensive mess.

the original comment does a few things here, 1 being the complete erasure and dismissal of the struggle LGBT people have had actually getting these f/f couples on screen.

2, acting like these four children's cartoons are somehow elevating wlw representation to straight representation by pitting mlm rep against them vs against het couples, rather than acknowledging both facts: that four shows of minor, one-to-none kiss rep is pathetically low, AND that mlm rep is pretty much nonexistent in media like this.

and 3, he used the phrase "girl on girl" like a goddamned porn category, implying his opinion on the apparent "easiness" and "laziness" of sapphic couples is in fact informed by and probably counting fetishistic lesbian porn made for straight men.

(this man also spent a good deal of time on twitter antagonizing lesbians who called him out, many of them teenagers, some by saying some sexist shit and defending it with utterly stereotypical sexist responses, and he had added to his callout, a post of him referring to a sapphic character with the d slur, so feel free to go report him.)

the second comment here chimes in with an almost hilariously hypocritical assertation that a) these sweet, canon wlw couples on CHILDREN'S shows are (somehow) fetishistic (for existing at all i guess??) and that b) most lesbian relationships are (somehow) abusive; which is besides the point of this post, but still one of the most hurtful and damaging things said in this thread. there is an additional comment of hers (not shown) below this one that clarifies that is what she meant.

in any case, this drove me up a fucking WALL.

because while the initial point here - that media creators are still too scared to show boys as much as even holding hands in shows like this - has a lot of validity to it, it was posed at the utter expense of lesbians, and requires of heavy dose of hypocrisy to follow through in that way.

because while media is still scarce on similar mlm rep, fandom is literally DOMINATED by it. to the point that many lesbians, including myself, have said we can't find a safe space within it ANYWHERE. I've had to drop out of active participation in SO MANY fandoms i previously loved, because the entire fandom was reduced down to thirsting after and fetishizing men in the fandom, particularly in m/m format.

there is overt hostility towards lesbians in fandom spaces when we express our discomfort over this, and to boot f/f often gets ignored or mistreated by the same people, so it only adds to our discomfort and alienation.

these 4 shows have hardly put a dent in that. they are very meagre representation at best, save maybe steven universe on a technicality, because the rest are all end-of-show or even post-show confirmations, and all of these shows have about 1-2 kisses each, if even that. pathetic stats when compared to m/f couples. it has not made fandom that much of an easier place to be as a lesbian, but i am nontheless INCREDIBLY thankful they exist nonetheless.

the hypocrisy is hard, because as a lesbian the most we are often offered is blatant fetishization, so wlw media that literally DOESN'T do that, coming from lgbt people, is incredibly important. anything that is normalizing is desperately needed.

and yet this person calls what little bit of non fetishistic media we have fetishistic, underneath a fetishizing comment about them, decrying it existing because of claimed fetishization - all in the name of speaking up about mlm rep, which is, within fandom, actually JUST as fetishized, if not more.

and it breaks my fucking heart as much as it enrages me, because this COULD have been a valuable discussion. we could have talked about the fact that mlm have yet to get similar representation to this, likely mostly due to toxic masculinity. but instead these posts used that as merely an excuse, the afterthought to tearing down lesbians and this wlw rep.

and all this to say: it literally doesn't matter how valid your original point is; if you build it on a foundation of hatred and bigotry, it loses all credibility, and destroys the desire for anyone to put in discussion about it. talking about mlm rep under a heavy blanket of lesbophobia will get you nowhere except on a lot of shit lists, unless you WANT to align with general homophobes; but i promise you they will care even less about the plight of mlm rep, save for, oh how ironic, cases of fetishization.

if you look at four, yes the whole FOUR shows sapphics got of representation like this, and your follow through logic is that sapphic rep is thus "easy" and "lazy," you are clearly lesbophobic already and have no ground to start with.

the clashing, hypocritical combination of ideas here that bizarrely imply that both a) fetishized lesbians count as rep, and b) that lesbian rep shouldn't be there because it's fetishized, do not create a cohesive starting point for a discussion of lack of mlm rep, and conveniently ignores the endless bounds of fetishization that is involved with m/m couples in fandom; which means none of it is actually about fetishization at all. it's about these couples being sapphic.

the fact that these two people are bi, people from within our own community, makes this hurt all the worse. lesbophobia is so goddamned pervasive among us that even when we should be fucking celebrating this factually rare achievement of rep, instead people are tearing down lesbians, both characters and real people.

it's disgusting, disheartening, and it's something we need to pay attention to so we can call it out and make it abundantly clear that it will not be tolerated or normalized.

the height of offensive irony is calling us "safe" when this is what we get just over an episode of a cartoon showing two girls kiss.

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thefiveavengers · 4 years

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jester and sexuality/romantic inclinations

so, this is my last day of summer break (actually the day before last, but tomorow is monday) and I decided to put into words what my thoughts about this dicey, dicey subject are. First, these are solely my opinons based on 1) watching the second campaign, 2)watching talks machina and the meta knowledge that comes with that and 3) assuming the players are playing in good faith and are open minded to organic changes that might come to their characters along the way.

and second, I do have my biases, and I come from the following inclinations: I ship lavorregard, and I don’t believe Jester is straight.

That said let’s begin. I’ve written a far amount about the lavorregard ship, but mostly focused on Beau’s feelings and her perspective. Right before the ep that Beau reveals the crush to Nott I wrote the following: “ If I were to put a chronology on Beau’s feelings for Jester it would go something like that: 1)“This girl is cute and somehow I like her way more than I usually like, well, anybody” 2) “This girl is cute and we are… friends???” 3) “This girl is cute, we are friends and I love her” 4) “We are friends, I love her AND I think she is hot” 5) “This girl is hot, I love her and maybe I love her as more than friends?”

But last ep I think it shifted to, “I’m definetely into Jester as more than friends and she’s never been hotter AND I think I’m getting to a point where I’m ready to actually process my feelings regarding that and be open about it.”

And lo and behold, the very next ep we saw Beau actually processing her feelings when talking to Nott. But what about Jester?

I’ve seen some people express the idea that “wouldn’t it be galaxy brain if all three cr ladies had independently decided when creating their characters that they are lesbians?” and honestly, while a cute thought, I don’t think that’s what’s happening. In my opinion what happened was, Marisha created Beau as a lesbian and she made sure to make that clear as possible from the get go, and one of the reasons I think she did that is because she entered the campaign looking to avoid a pc/pc romance, since the one she was in in cr1 took such a toll on her. She probably figured it would be a safe bet, playing a lesbian she would shield herself from the male characters and most likely the other female characters would not be interested in Beau, right?

Enter Ashley Johnson. Honestly I don’t think Ashley had such a clear idea that Yasha was (or is) a lesbian. She had a wife, and from what has been said in canon Zualla was her only romantic and sexual relationship. Now, from what we’ve seen Yasha hasn’t expressed any interest in men, but to be fair she hasn’t really expressed interest in much anybody. She called Jester adorable in the very first ep and she seems to be fond of Beau’s flirtations even if not directly responding to them. The conversation where Yasha has said that she has “seen {Beau} a lot” coupled with one of the songs in Yasha’s playlist has me convinced that Yasha has some kind of feelings for Beau, even if is just a small crush. And I say this as someone who doesnt ship Beau/Yasha. I don’t think they would make a good match, but that doesn’t mean I’d deny either of them having interest in the other. But that doesn’t mean Yasha is for sure a lesbian who would never engage with a men ever. She seems pretty adamant on not having any romantic connections, so its hard to gauge really where her interests lie. She is for sure though a wlw.

Now, when it comes to Jester and Laura Bailey that’s when things get complicated. I would assume that most of us that have considered the possibility of Jester not being straight have read the excellent essay on comphet by tumblr user fuzzy-face ( https://fuzzy-face.tumblr.com/post/185001577009/you-make-your-own-fairytale-jester-comphet ), so I’m not gonna rehash what she’s said already. While I do agree almost wholeheartedly with this post, I’ll say this, I don’t think Laura Bailey when creating Jester set out to tell a story of a wlw learning how to overcome comphet. But (BUT!,!) I also don’t think her idea was Jester is totally straight and that’s that! I think she created Jester as a sexually and romantically inexperienced young woman that almost immediately got a crush on Fjord because, among other reasons, he reminded her of a hero from her smut books.

Recently, with the new upload of talks to the CR youtube channel, I rewatched this talks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZqJzNj_1tI , which is about the ep a Hole in the Plan, deep into the pirate arc, but before the first big Beau/Jester moment, the conversation they had in the boat on ep 46. First I must express my annoyance at the fact that Laura and Marisha are the guests and yet at least 80% of the questions are about Fjord. I know it was in his arc, but COME ON! Also I was very surprised by how open they are talking about Fjord/Jester as if it were a done deal alaready. When anyone involved in Talks claim that they don’t do shipping questions, you should show them this ep because it is all about shipping questions. Anyways, Laura clearly states that Jester has a crush on Fjord (at the time at least) and she compares it to a super intense high school crush. So to me there is no refuting the fact that at least at some point Jester had a crush on Fjord.

What I do find it interesting is when you compare her answers in that talks to what she said in the most recent talks she’s participated ( https://youtu.be/_NmZ2b_Q3So ) which seem to at least indicate that Jester has, on a level or another, moved on from said crush. It’s also, the now infamous moment where Laura talks about Jester’s crush...es. We’ll get back to that.

That’s all good and dandy, but this is meta outside the game. Let’s go analyze actual in-game developments. As far as I can remember (and I’m not an expert in Fjord/Jester, so I might be forgetting something) these are the moments Jester spoke directly or inderectly about her crush on Fjord; when Caleb point blank asked her if she was sweet on him (to which she answered “I don’t know” and let’s keep that in mind); when she talked to nott about first kisses and the best thing she can say about it is that it didnt make her feel dead, and to me the most significant moment; when she asks the traveler how to make a boy like her. Now, I’ve seen some people band about this as irrefutable proof that Jester IS straight, otherwise she wouldnt be asking the traveler advice about boys, but in this case she wasn’t talking about boys in general, she was talking about ONE boy and that was Fjord.

And that’s the crux of the matter isn’t it? Jester has demonstrated sexual/romantic interest in one man and one man alone, and that’s fjord. That does not mean she is straight. It doesn’t even mean that she, if a wlw, is bi. Her crush on Fjord has been wrapped around in all these expectations and I think its hard to parse how much was just projecting, among other things, the romance her parents had. Also, let me comment on how all these developments were long ago, during the pirate arc, over one year ago in real time.

Jester has commented about Fjord’s appearance and Caleb’s and even pointed out to Reani that hot boi Essek was hot, but its all done very matter-of-factly. And if we are going to talk about Jester commenting on people’s apperances we have to acknowledge how Jester cannot SHUT UP about how she finds women beautiful. From Beau to Nott, from Reani to random shop girl in Uthodurn and her obssession with the Bright Queen in particular its all very in your face. Once someone wanted to argue with me that this is just how straight girls air their insecurities, and even if that’s true and not just misogyny, the only time Jester commented on a woman’s apperance with any kind of insecure note was one time when she compared herself to her mother.

Look, the thing is, if we take at face value every comment Jester has made about Fjord’s looks and strenght, we also have to take at face value how distraught she looked and sounded facing the idea that Beau’s new vestiments wouldn’t let her abs show. Is it funny? Yes, but it’s funny for the idea that Jester is very appreciative of Beau’s abs, which, I’m still waiting for the straight explanation if anyone if willing to give me.

To end, this goddamned book that I’ve started, the thing that gives me the most certainty that Jester is not straight and that a Beau/Jester romance is not only possible but likely is that I do not believe Laura Bailey is cruel. If she had no interest in exploring the possibility of a not-straight Jester and a B/J romance she wouldn’t been doing what she has been doing for awhile now.

And what do I mean about that? I mean that even before Beau’s confession there’s been a different dynamic to their relationship. I already mentioned the “but can I see her abs????” incident, but also her encouragement about beau’s qualities and abilities (beau, you’re super strong), using the traveler as a proxy to her feelings (the traveler thinks you’ll do great, the traveler thinks you’re awesome, the traveler loves you), waiting to hold beau when she went up a column and showing disapointment when she didnt fell into her arms, listening to Beau regarding her wanting to confront her dad, being super, and I mean SUPER bummed out when Beau and Reani kissed and took a walk. And after the confession things ramped up.

Like, that was Laura Bailey listening to the conversation between Nott and Beau, not Jester. She could have had continued to play out their friendship as usual, but that’s not what she did. She used this opportunity to play the romantic possibility as never before. Making sure that Jester shielded Beau’s body in combat, being VERY specific that when her double cured her, she leaned over her body and put her hands to her face and even contradicting Matt, pointing out that when she woke up, it wasn’t the laughing hand that she first saw, but Jester’s face. And then there’s ep 89, the juiciest lavorregard ep since ep 46. It’s romantic comedy set up, one character confesses their love to a third one, and the one character who is the target of that love starts a conversation with “Are you avoiding me? Because I think I know why.” That’s a romantic trope ladies and gents, and Laura Bailey the genius she is played it to perfection. Not being sure why she was so upset about not curing Beau (a sentiment that battle mercy Jester has never expressed before). Wanting to punish Beau’s dad for not treating her right, getting to an agreement after arguing about tarot and molly. Afterwards engaging Fjord in an activity that she usually associates with beau, that goes disastrously and thanks to the dice gods, I could see, in real time the comphet melting away.

And concluding with the fact that she bet 20 extra gold on Beau on the down low.

So coming back to the idea of Jester having crush...es, to me is very clear those crushes are, the one she has/had on Fjord and her new emerging one on Beau. do I think Jester herself is aware of these feelings? Not really, but Laura sure is.

look this is not about being entitled or acusing anyone of queerbaiting if my ship doesnt pan out. its just, you know, laura’s sister is a lesbian, and I do think that gives people some perspective that they might not have, and I genuinely don’t think she would be playing things as she is, if she didn’t have any interest in playing out to the end.

#critical role #jester #jester lavorre #beaujester #lavorregard #this got super long and took me a few hours #but anyways these are most of my feelings regarding queer jester

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thisiskatsblog · 4 years

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I think your struggles with WSMV are commendably open and unusually for this fandom, honest. But the fact you have to find something to criticise Louis for to make your opinion ‘safe’ shows what an atmosphere of fear we operate in. Louis is always open to our criticism because his public image was set up to ‘disappoint’ us. But Harry is untouchable, sacrosanct, to the point this fandom is about worshipping him. I speak as a Larrie who’s finally accepted what Ive become. This far and no further

Several points in there, anon.

- First, the reason I mention any dissatisfaction with Louis’ collabs has nothing to do with it not being safe to criticize Harry without criticizing Louis. You may have a different experience, I fully acknowledge that. I am only speaking to my experience. Personally, I have been criticized more for criticizing Louis than I ever have been for criticizing Harry. And more: I have been criticized more for saying nice things about Harry than I ever have been for criticizing Harry. Maybe that’s all two bitter anons, one who wants me to hate Harry like they do and one very vicious one who wants me out of Louis’ fandom to “keep it pure” over there or something. That kind of stuff etches itself onto your soul if you’re not careful. So I agree that there’s a nasty atmosphere - but for me, that’s not an atmosphere where Harry is sacrosanct - it’s one that’s manifested itself mostly in people wanting to pull or push me over some dividing line. To many, apparently, it’s either Louis, or Harry, and for me, I am sorry, it’s never going to be one or the other. I have fought for, and I love, both. Together, or apart, but both.

- Second, the reason I mention any dissatisfaction with Louis’ collabs has, again, nothing to do with the public image that has been fabricated for Louis, which I - like many who are still here in this fandom - tend to completely disregard, and which he, thankfully, and to his great credit, is doing as little as possible to play along with. Yes, that image was set up to drive any believers in his non-heterosexuality away, and IT HAS COMPLETELY FAILED AT DOING SO. Louis’ fandom is gay as hell, it’s full of people who identify with his struggle with the closet, who admire him for how he has resisted, and who know he is proud. I reblogged a post somewhere where I said “thank GOD” about the fact that Louis would completely fail to make a video like this look anything but incredibly awkward.

So, really honestly, am not “finding” anything to criticise Louis for. My opinion about Louis’ collabs is as honest as my opinion about Harry’s music video. It is one that I always held, which I didn’t speak about at the time, and which I was relieved and a little bit surprised to find out I wasn’t alone with when another real Louis fan first suggested to me that they didn’t think this was the kind of music Louis would continue to make.

Until that point, I was happy for him that the collabs were succesfull, but I couldn’t be bothered. I loved the lyrics video for Just Like You, and was very vocal about it (my god how good was that - compared to this), and I kept my mouth shut about anything else. In a way, I felt his life was difficult enough with his mom’s death and his management, and so I didn’t think it mattered what I thought. And I regret my silence now. It didn’t help me, and it certainly didn’t help Louis.

In the year that I left this fandom, I posted three times. One short line when his sister died. Another when he “announced” that he was going to focus on his own taste rather than radiofriendliness. And yet another when he reappropriated the “bullshit” phrase. These are the things that matter to me, more than anything else. Louis’ wellbeing. Louis making good music that suits him, Louis chipping away at the public image that was fabricated for him. I always criticised that image and the tweets sent from his account to create it, but I regret not having spoken up sooner about the collabs. Because I think that would have supported Louis in his opinions, in what he wanted to make.

In conclusion: there is far more that I like about Louis’ music, and his videos, at this moment, than I like about Harry at this moment. Harry has his ups and downs. He has brought us great moments of queerness and pride and rainbowwaving joy, and he/the marketing machine behind him disappoints us, regularly, by playing it safe, playing both sides, pandering to the hets, whatever you want to call it. It’s painful and it hurts to have your hopes raised and disappointed time and time again - in some way, it’s easier just to ignore someone’s public image knowing that’s it’s there to disappoint you, and focus on the subtext alone. With Louis, the public image even almost reinforces us, you know?

But if I am very honest, I want neither of these. If I am honest, what I would really wish for them both is for them to ditch the industry and focus on their art. Artists who manage to do that, may have a smaller audience, but a much better connection with their audience. They really contribute something.

Clearly, Harry and Louis have chosen for a career in the industry, and have decided to delay their coming out for that purpose, and that is a choice I can respect, as it’s not completely without merit to reach a larger audience and do with that what you can, despite the limitations (ie not being able to come out fully). Despite their closeting, to me, the JLY video contributed something. Adore you contributed something. Louis’ trilogy, while not bringing a “message” exactly like that, definitely told a very authentic story, it was him expressing himself, and with that alone it contributed.

I don’t think the WS video contributed much to anything, except reinforcing Harry’s closet to the onlooker, and giving some people who like to look at girls touching eachother something to enjoy. Some, not all, as many wlw felt uncomfortable. Even if I can recognize his effort, that is absolutely regrettable. I hope Harry never does anything like this again, and that, next time he wants to give his wlw fandom a wink, he is smart enough to consult a wlw, and give her control.

And somewhere, deep inside, I also hope that at some point, they can leave this pandering behind, and just be authentic. That, more than anything, is what I wish for them both

#t #Anonymous #ask #i think in general they are both as authentic as they can be #although i think louis ironically so more straightforwardly #and i also get the feeling this is really inportant to them #and i read them as wishing to come out #but restricted by their comtacts management label whichever #and if it is their choice #i am sure they have their reasons #of which i hope capitalism isnt one

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iridescentides · 4 years

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🔥 + any hot takes/thoughts/unpopular opinions about Glee, A:tLA, and Umbrella Academy bc you reblog a lot of them and I love those shows

AH thank you so so much for sending this! i will try to limit myself bc i have a lot of opinions okay

Glee

i could go on and on about glee bc there are 12 billion things to say (and the show is super long). but i think my most controversial opinions are:

i dont ship finchel or klaine. at all.

i can explain. i have a love/hate (but mostly hate) relationship with rachel as a character. sometimes i feel bad for her bc its clear shes struggling and insecure and shes a flawed female character which we need to appreciate. BUT she is just so unbearably annoying, selfish, and awful to everyone around her, and season 5 was the point where i finally made a decision. i dont like her. similarly, i hate finn bc he is overglorified by the other characters on the show, without any actions supporting it. they all say that finn is their leader, that hes the nicest guy ever, and praise him like a hero when in reality, he calls people slurs, outs them in the hallway, cheats on his girlfriends, and just overall acts like a douche towards anyone he doesnt immediately understand or relate to or wanna fuck. they all SAY hes amazing, but his actions just do not support that at all, and thats bad writing imo. i think because those characters are awful, their relationship is a colossal mess, and i think if i had to choose a definitive least favorite point for them, it would be when finn beat brody up for dating rachel. like what did the show want us to appreciate about that??? thats not romantic at all!!! thats disgusting and a sign that finn needs help. physically threatening people who date your exes? who does that??? and we’re supposed to think its cute bc he says “my future wife.” mhm. sure.

i hate klaine bc while i love kurt, i think blaine is awful to him. blaine relies heavily on having a sense of power over kurt, and this is even openly explored in one of the later episodes, but not resolved well imo. from the moment they met and got together, blaine was using his power and standing as head of the warblers to subtly make kurt feel lesser. he liked feeling like he held some sort of power in the relationship. then, when he goes to new york and gains weight and thinks of himself as less attractive, he gets angry and jealous of kurt bc he wants to be the “hot” one in the relationship, and always considered himself as such. if you are comparing yourself to your partner in that way, please break up with them and learn how to feel complete by yourself. blaines insecurities repeatedly fucked up their relationship, and i never have and never will ship them. the fact that they last minute decided to get married, ignoring their glaring issues with living together and teamwork in general, due to social pressure to crash brittanas wedding was absolutely ridiculous and a bullshit wrap up to their story.

A:TLA

okay so i know everyone is having fun rn joking about how “zukka nation has risen” but i honestly dont see it and never will. i dont get where the fandom has just decided this year to prioritize a ship that gets no real exposure, no buildup, and basically a two episode arc in terms of trust and teamwork. i recently saw a post talking about how theres not much fan content for mai/ty lee, who have an actual solid friendship (and ty lee literally risked her life to save mai), but theres tons of fans pushing zukka and acting like its THE ship we should all be shipping, showing the general bias fandoms have for mlm over wlw. something to think about. ive been zutara trash since i was 11 years old, so needless to say, i would pick them over zukka any day.

piggybacking off of the weird superiority complex people have for shipping zukka, i have always been annoyed by sokka stans in general? just to be clear, i love sokka, and i dont think there is anything wrong with loving him! but i HATE how people who consider sokka their favorite character act like theyre special for that? people are always crying that hes “underappreciated” and that hes so much smarter and more capable than anyone else. and i personally have not seen a single person criticize sokka, when ive seen at least small bits of hate thrown at each character. my point here is, loving sokka is a super popular opinion to have, and literally everyone loves sokka! so when people act like theyre the only one who truly appreciates sokka it really bugs me bc like. it truly doesnt make you special. everyone has a different favorite atla character but i pretty much only see sokka stans with this odd superiority complex, acting like theyre so rare for loving a super loveable character.

TUA

idk if this is an unpopular opinion or not, but the show would be unwatchable without klaus. hes pretty much everyones favorite character, we all see ourselves in him and we root for him and we laugh at him, and while i agree with the sentiment that he gets a disproportionate amount of attention for how ultimately irrelevant he is to the plot, i literally would not care about tua at all without him.

on the flipside of that, i want to love allison so badly, but she gets no time or attention or development at all. her main traits are inc*st and missing her child. she gets nothing beyond that, and we dont know as much about her as the rest of the siblings. it hurts my heart to see the only woman of color in the family being treated so obviously like a side character in an ensemble cast. im really hoping we see more of her in s2.

thank you so much for sending these!!! i obviously love these shows a lot, im just picky about these things.

Send Me a 🔥+ a Topic, and I’ll Tell You My Honest Opinion About It!

#what a great ask wow #i honestly hate how much i love glee for how many bad things there are about glee #why am i like this #anons #answered asks #Anonymous

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