#i like the idea of jason having to catch up on batfamily lore | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

stxleslyds · 3 years

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You always seem down on the idea of the Batfam. I mean, it is hard to take seriously when writers make Bruce hostile or downright abusive towards his kids, or when Batfam members never interact. But do you think the concept itself is good, and it's just been the victim of bad writing? Or do you think the Batfam is a bad idea that can never work?

Hi there Anon! Thank you for the ask!

Hmm, this is a difficult question. Maybe I can answer this better if I do it in parts because the concept of “Batfamily” is used in different ways currently. A way to separate them can be, DC’s Batfamily, Fandom’s Batfamily and Fandom’s Batfamily lore being introduced in comics’ canon.

DC’s Batfamily:

My rejection of this version of Batfamily comes from all angles, it is not a good concept within comics lore anymore, it’s badly written and used to hide and move on from truly horrendous actions done by Bruce towards the rest of the family, and DC uses the concept of “Batfamily” that fandom has become so attached to, so they can profit off of it without writing anything of real essence with it.

Why did I say that the Batfamily isn’t a good concept anymore? Well, because the Batfamily that I first came across in comics included, Bruce, Dick, Alfred, Barbara, Tim and Cassandra. It was rather small and their books interconnected and had pretty solid relationships with one another. Dick and Tim got along and spent time together, Barbara mentored Cass so she could become Batgirl and so on and so forth. The family was smaller and more connected. But they still had problems and bad habits then. So, I liked them as a group of people that worked together and the name they received was “Batfamily” as a way for DC to profit from it.

Right now, the Batfamily is huge, I don’t know if you have seen those splash pages with all the members of it for Rebirth and Infinite Frontier, but those promotional pages were crazy big, characters like Harley and Clownhunter are now considered part of the “Batfamily” and all that. Then there is the kind of characters like Cass, Steph and Kate who are all connected to Batman but that haven’t been appearing in books for very long, so putting them on that page really feels like DC is trying to prove that their “Batfamily” actually has women on it, but it’s just for show.

And then there is Dick, Jason, Tim and Damian, the most recognizable faces of the Batfamily aside from Bruce and Alfred (but Alfred is dead now so he doesn’t really count), all of them have had issues with Bruce or are indifferent to the existence of one another. Yes, Tom Taylor has included Tim in Dick’s book but here is the thing, it feels like he put him there just to make fans shut up about the lack of content with both of them acting as they used to do. But its false and lazy, Taylor just brought Tim to the book but we don’t get to see Tim and Dick interact in ways that can explain why they drifted off, it kinda seems like all those years where Dick and Tim were pulled apart never happened to DC and that makes me think “cash grab”. I would have loved to see them interact again if it meant that we would have some solid story for them to develop their relationship once more.

At the end of Rebirth, Damian was pissed off at Bruce and they had a fight and Damian left the manor completely. Bruce beat up Jason, then gave him a hug but still told him that he was banned from Gotham and all that abuse and manipulation was swept under the rug when DC came out with Urban Legends: Cheer, all they did with that story is lie and made-up stories about Jason wanting Bruce to go on a killing spree so Gotham can finally be the home to his beloved family (lies, lies, lies).

On top of all that we have the neglect, abuse and manipulation that Bruce had going on with Dick, ever since Bruce manipulated Dick into joining Spyral his actions haven’t faced any consequences (the family still believes that Dick was the one who lied about dying). And as recently as the end of Rebirth, Dick suffered from a head injury that left him amnesiac and Bruce absolutely didn’t care enough to look after him when he was so vulnerable and alone. DC had the audacity of having Bruce say that he was looking after Dick while Dick went from one villain manipulating and hurting him to another, and if we look at Batman’s run, we can see that he spent some of that time in a weird pit or playing catch the pussy with Selina in a tropical island.

So, taking all those things into account, I honestly believe that the Batfamily is a concept that absolutely does not belong in comics. If it were to be taken seriously then DC should come up with (organic, not forced) stories that make these characters connect once again, but they have to be careful, just because they can connect it doesn’t mean that everyone gets along and they have group chats and eat dinner together of Fridays, that would be a blatant lie and just too out there for their kind of dynamic, so, they should take things slow, start re-building what once was an make it better (if they want to make it work and feel like less of a cash grab).

I heard that there is a book with Cass and Steph being mentored as Batgirls by Barbara coming out in December, that to me is a good thing, what was done in Robin #5 was awful, Jason didn’t have or want to be there, Tim, what the hell was Tim doing there? The only ones that have gotten along with Damian and have had a solid relationship with him were Dick and Steph. Dick had a very nice moment with Damian in that issue, but Steph didn’t, they preferred to have Jason wanting to hug Damian instead (what the actual hell was that?).

Fandom’s Batfamily:

Fandom is a place where people can take any concept from anywhere and transform it into whatever they please. This fandom is just like any other in that matter, but I have noticed that sometimes the Batfamily Fandom tends to blur the lines between what’s fanon and canon. Their lore is so deep and established among people that they sometimes (willingly or not) make new readers or other people believe that how things and perceived in fandom is how things actually are in comics, and that is a huge problem.

Things like “Dick sent Jason to Arkham when the Joker was just a cell away”, “Jason has pit madness and when he gets mad his eyes turn glowy green”, “Dick was a horrendous brother to Jason before Jason died”, “Jason would be good friends with Tim and Cass”, “Jason is the only one that sees the world differently from Bruce and the other robins because he is the only one that comes from a life with no luxury” and so on and on and on…

All of those things are sometimes treated as the absolute truth by fandom and no matter how many times people have debunked and explained that those things aren’t part of comics’ canon because they are simply not true, fandom stills treats those things as the basis of their Batfamily lore.

That lore would be actually fascinating if people didn’t lose sight so easily of the fact that at the end of the day none of that lore can be applied to comics’ canon.

When you enter this fandom things can be extremely confusing and the way some of the characters are characterized are completely different to their canon characterizations, I knew that the Dick fandom was writing about was not real, but I had no idea that Tim being a coffee addict that hasn’t slept in five months and is an absolute genius in everything and anything that he does was completely out of character for him, I just thought that was true to his character in comics too. Something like that happened to me when I took a peek at Jason’s side of fandom, by that time I had read Red Hood/Arsenal, UtRH and New 52 RHatO (yeah in that order, Red Hood/Arsenal wasn’t finished yet though), with the already conflicting characterizations of those books, the first look that I had at fandom’s Jason confused me even more. After considering all those I decided that the Jason that I wanted to see and actually looked appealing to me was UtRH Jason.

Not all people in fandom read comics and that is ABSOLUTELY VALID, I have zero problems with people not liking the comic characterizations of the “Batfamily” characters, but that in itself also creates a rift between fans themselves.

Fandom’s Batfamily lore being introduced in comics’ canon:

This is obviously the intersection of the other two points and this is the biggest problem that I have with the Batfamily concept. The fandom lore has been leaking into comic’s canon for a while now but right now we are kinda drowning in it. Decisions that have been made recently in DC like, Jason giving up his guns, the group chats in Nightwing issues, the family dinners that were hinted at in Cheer #6, and Bruce having had at the ready a Red Hood suit for Jason with a Batman logo in its chest, have been proof enough that DC is planning on skipping any kind of solid writing for these characters to actually get along. We are never going to see these people sit down and talk about their differences and respect each other’s work ethics.

We are never going to get stories of actual essence that prove that these characters understand and care for each other, we are just going to be told that “all is good” and now everyone loves one another and they will build from there.

That is a problem for me.

And it also takes away duality from Gotham’s vigilantes, I know I say this too much but it’s the truth, putting all these characters under the ruling of Batman makes them all bland. Jason shouldn’t be part of any sort of group that involves Bruce! My god, I don’t want to see them interact anymore! Bruce has been absolute trash to Jason ever since he came back from the dead and I am tired of DC trying to make them be on good terms!

Jason and Bruce not getting along can co-exist with the fact that Jason isn’t a villain to Batman’s legendary hero. Jason is his own character, with his own morals and he doesn’t need a bat symbol on his chest or book logo to be relevant. Same with Dick, Tim and Barbara, let them be characters that can stand on their own because they have already done that!

Barbara as Oracle worked WITH Batman if she wanted, she had her own logo and had passed on the mantle of Batgirl because he had grown out of it.

Dick is Nightwing and has become an even better hero than Batman could even aspire to become, he has contacts with everyone in the DC universe, has led countless teams, he doesn’t NEED a batman logo on his book or to be constantly dragged back to him just to make the Bat more compelling.

Jason, my sweet Jason, he had his own logo! It was gorgeous and then Lobdell had the audacity to stamp a Batman logo in the middle of the book name and in Jason’s chest! Have we gone absolutely mad? Why did they do that? Lobdell’s constant back and forth with Jason and his feelings for Bruce, he respects him and he doesn’t, he kills and he doesn’t… each issue felt like a new take on the character! It was crazy!

And that has happened with everyone in the “family”. I will end this by saying that Bruce/Batman being at the centre of this “Batfamily” dynamic is the most laughable thing in the DC Universe. Batman isn’t family to any of the people that they constantly surround him with, he is a piece of shit.

Anyway Anon, I hope this answer doesn’t ruin your day and that you understand that even though I really don’t like the “Batfamily” concept, you and everyone else are allowed and encouraged to think differently!

Hope you have a marvellous day Anon!

#jason todd #red hood #dick grayson #nightwing #tim drake #damian wayne #batfamily #batfam #dc comics #asksss

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reallyautomaticvoid · 5 years

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Calling It: Good Intentions Chapter 3: There’s Tim!

Characters (in order of appearance in this chapter): Conner Kent, Bart Allen, Tim Drake, Jason Todd, Dick Grayson

Chapter Summary:

Conner and Bart find Tim. Or, rather, Tim finds Conner and Bart.

After checking the dozen safe houses that they knew about plus a couple of old ones that Tim had abandoned (shocking an old lady when they burst in through her front door, though they did get pie…) Conner and Bart are out of ideas.

“I’m telling you,” Conner runs to keep up with Bart, “I don’t think he’ll be there.”

“It’s as good as any to regroup,” Bart counters as he punches in the security code. “Besides, I don’t want to miss Tim’s apartment being this clean. It might not ever happen again.”

Conner snorts because yeah, Bart has a point.

Conner follows Bart into the living room. Conner walks towards the perch’s entrance and stares at it again.

How bad could the security be?

Conner hesitates for half a second before using his X-ray vision to see through the door into the stare case. Or trying to use his X-ray vision.

He couldn’t see anything.

“Shit, Tim lead lined the goddamn door.”

“Because, of course, he did,” Bart snorts, staring at the door, “that’s our paranoid bird.”

“It’s not paranoia if someone is really after you,” a new, weary voice came from right behind them.

Jumping, Conner and Bart before turning to see, “Tim!”

It’s something to be said that two of the fastest people in the world couldn’t catch Tim before he collapses onto the couch. Tattered suit pants and collared, long sleeves hung off of Tim’s frame making him like he’d lost ten pounds.

Clammy skin? Check. At least a half a dozen new scratches, some infected, covering his arms and face? Check. Giant fresh gash covering Tim’s forearm? Check.

Conner knows there was more but didn't trust himself to use his x-ray vision. With how shitty Tim looks, literally the last thing Tim needs is for Conner to fuck up and fry him instead of scanning him.

Instead, Conner gently puts his hand on Tim’s forehead.

“You look like shit, Tim,” Conner mildly says. He mouths fever at Bart who nods before running off to get supplies. “You know, when someone is missing their spleen, normal they do little things like gee, I don’t know, eat. Sleep. Take a shower.”

A faint smile twitches on Tim’s face. “I’ll be sure to let Ra’s know that you’re not interested in his vacation package. He was so hoping that you'd be going next.”

“You were with Ra?” Bart reenters the room but freezes at Con’s words.

The exchange a look; both knew the Demon’s Head has an unhealthy interest (obsession) in Tim. Tim’s never been keen on sharing the hows and whys of that interest which pisses Conner off to no end.

“Yup. Not the best vacation I’ve ever been on but still not the worst. That still the time that Bruce tried to make us all go on that family retreat when the Demon tried to leave me in the woods to starve.” Tim’s voice gets higher as he mimics Damian in a dead-on impression. “But Father, why do we even need Drake here. I’m here now; you don’t need a cheap replacement. Grayson, I don’t care if you like him; he’s weak and should be removed. Fuck, that was a long week.”

Conner and Bart exchange an awshiiiiiit look.

They know some of the Batfamily drama.

No, that’s a lie; they knew very, very little about the Batfamily drama. Tim rarely (if ever) talks about the ins and outs of what actually happened once Damian arrived at the Manner. All Conner knows for sure was once Damian moved in, Tim had slowly, but surely started spending more time in San Francisco and less and less time in Gotham.

Fuuuuuuuuck, Tim must really be fuck he’s talking about it so freely.

Bart grabs the thermometer and gives it to Tim.

Tim makes a face.

Bart arches an eyebrow. “It’s your mouth, or I’ll find someplace to put it.”

Tim takes the thermometer, putting it under his tongue. After thirty seconds, it beeps with a temperature of 101°. Bart and Conner exchange a knowing look.

“Oh, don’t look at each other like that,” Tim moans. “I’m fine. I just need a little sleep.”

Conner snorts. “No doubt, but let’s get you something to drink first, okay? When was the last time you ate?”

“Had a salad with Tam,” Tim grunt.

“Salad doesn’t count. When was the last time you had real food?”

“Salad does so count. It had chicken on it and everything.” Tim whines as he rolls over and shoves his face into the back of the couch. “Sleep.”

Conner looks at Bart who mouths fuck.

Little known Titan lore: if Tim Drake whines about wanting to sleep, it means some shit has gone down.

“Man, you really gotta learn how to take care of yourself.”

“I’ll be sure to let Ra’s know you don’t approve of his solitary confinement package.”

Conner files that away for future discussion (which Conner’s sure won’t get him anywhere) before hoisting Tim up bridal style. “Come on, man. Let’s get you some food. Can’t take your antibiotics on an empty stomach.”

Tim hisses. “I hate those things. They always make me nausea.”

Bart shakes his head, muttering, “sure it's not the whole not eating anything for a week things?”

Tim’s head lulls back to glare at Bart. “Nope. Defiantly the antibiotic.”

Conner doesn’t say anything, as he’s too busy trying not to laugh. Or cry. He isn’t sure which.

“Here you go,” Conner deposits Tim at the table where Tim slumps, face first, into the table. “What do you want—uh, what do you have to eat?”

“Coffee.”

Bart snorts. “One, that’s a drink, not a food. Two, you know the rules: no caffeine on an empty stomach.” Bart zips around the kitchen opening cabinets, looking for food. He finally ends at the empty fridge. “Power bars, energy drinks, and coffee? Really Tim? That’s all you have in your kitchen? Even I can’t make something out of that. More importantly, how are you alive if that’s all you eat in Gotham? How have you not had a heart attack?”

Bart’s— the best chef among the Titans—could do wonders in the kitchen. Conner once saw Bart make a mouthwatering casserole out of an orange, licorice, tofu, and a few other ingredients that Conner missed. As Bart put it, “if you had to eat twenty thousand calories a day, you’d get good at cooking too.”

“Coffee,” Tim stubbornly repeats.

Rolling his eyes, Bart says, “I’ll be back,” before zooming out of the room without another word.

Conner goes over to the cabinet that holds some of Tim’s emergency shits hit the fan supplies including bags of saline solution and an IV. Tim eyes Conner as he moves around but doesn’t object when Conner gently put the IV needle into Tim’s arm. Although, Conner isn’t sure that Tim has the energy to object to anything that the Meta might do to him. Conner sits down, watching the IV drip. Tim closes his eyes; head resting on the table.

“You want to talk about it?” Conner murmurs.

“No.” It’s the strongest thing Conner’s heard Tim say since Tim had stumbled back into his apartment, so Conner doesn’t argue.

After about ten minutes, Bart comes charging back in. “You know, fast food places really aren’t that fast. It took them FOREVER to get the food done.”

Conner snorts, “I’m surprised you didn’t go behind the counter and make it yourself.”

Bart tosses Conner a burger before handing Tim some plain toast. “Thought about it. Decided that it would probably just draw too much attention to myself.”

“You guys know I’m off of carbs.” Tim groans.

“Shut up and eat your toast or I’m calling Cassie.”

Tim flinches but starts nibbling at his toast. “I still want some coffee.”

After a long talk with Roy, who didn’t believe that Jason was okay which he was, Jason’s suiting up for the night when he feels his phone vibrate. Fishing it out of his pocket, the new text alert flashes from an unknown number. Jason opens it and read:

Got Tim. Heading back to the Tower.

Jason blinks, a knot that he hadn’t known was in his lower gut loosens, before he fumbles with his phone for a minute, trying to figure out what to write (things ranging from where the hell was he to get his ass to the cave now all floated through his head) before finally settled on:

Is he okay?

Jason had finished zipping up his jacket (contemplating the best way to go and find those ‘heroes’) when his phone went off again.

He says we’re inhuman because we won’t give him coffee. See you around.

Jason punches the front of his locker.

Luckily, it didn’t dent; otherwise, he’d have to deal with disappointed Alfred sighs for the next month. He didn’t like being brushed off especially by a couple of pip-squeaks.

Jason’s Robin Sense went off before he saw anything. “The fuck you want?”

Dick appears right next to him because fuck him Dick had been goddamn Batman.

“What happened to your phone?”

Because shit he’s still clutching his cracked screen phone in his hand.

Jason glares at Dick. “Nothing.”

Dick hums. “Okay. You seemed distracted. Everything okay?”

Jason slams his locker shut. “I’m fine.”

Dick gives Jason a smile that only an older sibling can.

Fucking hell, why is Jason here again?

Alfred’s food.

Right.

Fucking hell, say it already.

“I was just thinkin’ about Babybird.”

That got Dick’s attention.

Jason grins to himself.

“Why were you thinking about him?” Dick nonchalantly asks which he mighta bought if Jason couldn’t see Dick’s back stiffening and his muscles were twitching.

“Just trying to remember the last time I saw ‘em in the cave is all.”

Jason isn’t one for sublet.

It takes for fuck ever for someone (cough, cough, Dick…Bruce) ta realize the fucking point you’re trying to make.

It’s much more satisfying when you could smack someone in the face with their stupidity.

Preferable with a fist.

The Bats, however, like to believe that they were fucking perfect (especially Dick, especially in the brother department). They didn’t take it so well when they get caught being stupid.

Dick, for his part, gives Jason a look like Dick clearly question if Jason’s lost his mind. “What are you talking about, Jay? He was just here last week. He ran a virus sweep on the Batcomputer.”

Jason had to fight the urge to smack Dick.

Repeatedly.

With his fist.

Instead, he cocks an eyebrow at his brother. “That was six months ago.”

The reaction is instant. Dick recoils like Jason had punched him. He stares at Jason for a full minute before slowly shaking his head. Though it looked like there're ‘bout a billion thoughts flashing behind Dick’s eyes.

“What? No, it wasn’t. It was last week,” Dick insists, his voice rising. “Do you honestly think that I haven’t seen my brother in more than six months? I would have noticed not seeing him for that long.”

Jason pauses, giving Dick one of his patented, you’re full of shit but whatever you need to do to let you sleep at night looks before raising his hands.

“Sure, Big Bird. Whatever helps you sleep at night.”

Opening his locker, Jason looks for his rubber bullets.

Where the fuck are my motherfucking rubber bullets?

Days like today make him reconsider rejoining the Bats. Before all Jay had to do was shoot the asshole and move on.

Now, he has play nice with the Bats.

Some days, Jason wonders if it was worth it.

Then Alfred makes Jason’s favorite dessert, or Bruce would give him one of those goddamn almost smiles (which was like a goddamn hug from the old grump), and Jason found himself coming back home.

Home. Jason mused to himself.

It’s weird after all of these years to have a place that he’d consider a home.

“Jason?” Dick's voice sounds off.

“Yo,” Jason grunts without looking at Dick.

There was a pause.

Dick shifted uncomfortably as Jason finally found his bullets.

Damnit, Damian must have gotten into his locker again and moved shit around just ta fuck with Jason.

Again.

Maybe it was time for Jason to teach Titus how delicious Damian’s slippers were.

“Has he really not—did I miss—er—never mind.”

Jason looks up in time to catch a glimpse of Dick disappearance (showoff) before Jason he could say anything.

The next morning in Red Robin’s room at the Tower, Tim’s fever’s back down to normal. He was still coughing but he fine.

Really, he doesn’t understand why Bart and Conner are hovering. He’s in bed just like they want him to be.

Snug as a goddamn bug.

It’s Hell.

Tim does, however, have a company to run and needs to catch up.

“Don’t you have school,” Tim coughs.

“Flex day,” Conner answers while Bart nods along.

Damn. Tim thinks. “Why don’t you guys go catch a movie or something?”

Conner’s lip twitch and Bart gets a glint in his eye.

Shit.

“A movie does sound like fun.” Bart turns to Conner, “You thinking what I’m thinking?”

“Marathon?”

“Marathon.”

“Good, bad, or terrible movies?”

“Mix, of course.”

“Perfect.”

“Food?”

Bart drums his thumbs Tim’s desk. “Give me half an hour.” And Bart dashes off.

Tim looks up at Con. “Do I get a vote in this?”

“Nope,” Con pop the p.

“Fantastic. I do have work to get done.”

“You were kidnapped and torched. You can take the day off.”

“Red Robin, maybe, but Tim Wayne? Didn’t you hear? He just got back from a lovely whirlwind vacation.”

Conner rolls his eyes. “Really now? Were there any hot models there?”

“Not a one sadly. There was some lovely time to meditate though.”

“Don’t they call that solitary confinement?”

Tim shrugs, “eh, if life gives you lemons.”

“You say ‘what the hell? I ordered oranges.’” Con smirks.

Tim rolls his eyes. “Well, I did order oranges.” Tim laughs which was a mistake because it set off another round of coughing. Before he could ask, Conner was handing him a glass of water. Tim grimaces. “Coffee would be better.”

“You know the rules: No coffee for twenty-four hours after a fever spike.”

Tim hisses. “It was only 101. That’s barely a fever.”

Conner looks utterly unmoved by this argument.

Bastard.

“Close enough.”

“I’m a mature twenty. I can take care of myself.”

“Uhuh. And what show did you leave as a parting gift to Ra’s?”

“Teletubbies,” Tim grins. Not his new business-friendly smile but a real grin that let the former Robin shin through. “I thought he’d enjoy it. Plus he could use a refresher on how sharing is caring.”

Con laughs at that before sobering. “You know, I was thinking,” Tim internal winces, but keeps his face smooth. He knew this was coming but it did make the experience any more enjoyable, “maybe it’s time you move out of Gotham? You could move to the tower full time or something.”

Tim keeps his expression smooth. “Aren’t you the one who’s always nagging me to get out of the tower?”

Con glowers at him. “To see a movie, take a walk in the park, go on a date. Not to go back to one of the most crime-ridden cities in the world. Hell, in the universe.” Con took a deep calming breath.

Tim thinks about it. He really thinks about it. He considers moving out of Gotham permanently. What would the ramification of leaving the city that's rejected him several times over? And while the idea is tempting, to be free of the Bats (fuck yeah that’s an excellent thought now, isn’t?), of all of the baggage that came with Gotham, but—

“It’s home, Con. I’m—I’m not ready to leave it yet.” Tim’s voice sounds young, even to his ears.

Con sighs. “Yeah, that’s what you always say. Had to ask though. I think you should still move though. Ra’s knowing—” Tim cuts him off with a snort.

“Ra’s make it a point to know what laundry soap I use. Hell, he makes it a point to know what kind of cough drops I take. He’ll know if I move. Might as well stay where I’m at for now.”

The rest of the argument is cut short by Bart reentering the room carrying way, way too much food. Bart then speeds back out of the room only to reappear in a blink of an eye with a rather large stack of movies.

Tim stares at the pile.

No way they’re getting through that stack in one day.

Bloody hell.

Thanks for reading!

https://archiveofourown.org/works/18106355/chapters/43592294

#calling it #chapter 3 #fanfiction #conner kent #bart allen #Tim Drake #Jason Todd #dick grayson

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