I love that - thanks to one small line - their first kiss gives us a huge look at what kind of partner (and then later husband) the Eleventh Doctor is.
'What, that's it?'
First of all bear in mind from his perspective, yes they've gotten closer, but he's still suspecting that River might kill him sooner rather than later. It's understandable that some trust issues linger and thus he's still a bit quick with the casually dark (and cruel) demeanour.
River knows that. She knows where he is in his timeline. She knows that, despite how much he flirts with her (and he flirts with her A LOT), he is not her husband, not yet the man that loves her and he's not even the man that knows her. So why does his short goodbye confuse her?
Because this small line tells us that not only have they been dating (from his perspective) between DOTM and AGMGTW but they've been dating physically. To River, this short-fuzed ball of trust-issues is essentially not only her husband but also her actual boyfriend.
Meaning that the Doctor, before he became the doting idiot husband we saw in TATM/TNOTD and even before he knew who she was, never dropped her off after a date without at least (!) kissing her goodbye.
And I'm really putting the emphasis on never because River would otherwise not risk asking for a kiss, if there had been any doubt in her mind that this Doctor isn't a Doctor she had been dating. So what does that tell us?
Despite how much this fandom likes to paint the picture of the evil River who forced herself on the Doctor, she is never the one to initiate (physical) intimacy. She expected to be kissed, she expected the Doctor to kiss her because that's what the Doctor does. Husband or not.
And it's so ingrained in their relationship that even when he showed his honest confusion, River assumed he must be acting coy on purpose to get *her* to kiss *him* for once. And well it worked, intentionally or not, River complied because why wouldn't she? It's what they do.
Until of course she is forced to realise that it might not be what they do for much longer. This was his first kiss; so she might not see the boyfriend version of her Doctor very often from now on, if at all.
But ignoring all the insanely depressing angst of how that scene ended, yes we saw an end for River but we also saw where the Doctor's pre-AGMGTW dating spree and thus the affectionate idiot began because he makes it quite clear that he's up for more. (pun intended)
I wish we could've seen more of their time together. Unfortunately 98% of it happens off-screen but the point of this thread is to show that, even if most of it is off-screen, the show has made the nature of their relationship and the nature of the Doctor's feelings very clear.
Moffat's writing style is quick-paced and certainly assumes that the audience isn't too stupid to keep up. (wonder how that worked out) And small lines like these contain so much vital information that, for some people, it's easy to overlook.
But all we need to know is right there. The Eleventh Doctor dated River prior to AGMGTW, definitely prior to TWORS; they've been intimate for two hundred (!!!!) years from his perspective before he married her and he is the one to initiate that intimacy.
That's all. 🥰
original post on X by @/eIevenriver (who writes the bestest Doctor x River threads ever)
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Our Story (Fanfic)
Chapter 1 Promises
“Now, sing O Muses, of that brave boy Odysseïdes,
Sparta has he visit'd, Pylos twice, with Athena the wise queen…”
“Stop it,” Telemachus giggled. “You’re acting like your father.”
“No, I’m not,” said Peisistratus. “You’re acting like your father.”
“No, I’m not,” said Telemachus. “Unlike him, I don’t have many deeds to brag about.”
“Doesn’t sailing for the first time count?” Peisistratus insisted. “And if you don’t like this song I can always make a new one for you.”
“No thanks, Peisis,” Telemachus said. “At least, leave it till my birthday.”
“That I can arrange,” Peisistratus replied, seriously.
And they locked their gazes for a long time, until Telemachus finally burst out laughing. Soon Peisistratus joined him, and their laughter quickly flooded the entire palace. It died down eventually, as the two young men slowly calmed down. Then Peisistratus started:
“I’m so glad you’re here, Tele. Had it been another usual day, I’d be hunting with my brothers in the fields. Not that I don’t like hunting, it’s just that I’ve so many things to talk about and my brothers always find them either boring or childish. You might be the only one I could chat with. Ah, I wish you could visit Pylos more often.”
“Yeah,” Telemachus nodded. “It feels like such a long time since we last met…has it been two years already?”
“One whole year plus nine months, to be exact.”
“Right, I’m not gonna doubt you. After all, you’re better with this than I am.”
“That’s about the time since your father returned home, yep.”
“Before he set out again, you mean.”
“He set out again? About when?”
Telemachus sighed. “About one year and eight months ago. Said it was something concerning a prophecy someone named Teiresias told him—”
“Teiresias? The Teiresias? But isn’t he already dead?”
“Yep. My father had visited the Underworld, literally.”
Peisistratus gasped. “What—Oh my, that was some nostos your father had. Anyway has he met any great hero there? Like Theseus? Or Heracles? Or even my brother Antilochus?”
“He saw your brother there alright,” said Telemachus. “And Heracles, who even talked to him…”
“That’s so sick!” Peisistratus exclaimed. “I wonder if we’ll be having an adventure like this in the future, say, just you and me, maybe plus someone else, I don’t know.”
“You know what? It would be great!” Telemachus blinked his eyes excitedly. Why have I never thought about it before? Hanging out with my friends? It’s such a great idea! And father is going to be proud of us…
proud…
He’s going to be proud, isn’t he?
Telemachus wasn’t so sure. He remembered basically everything in that day, when his father again departed from Ithaca, this time to somewhere unknown even to himself. He remembered that it was a sunny day, that the chanting of birds was glorious, that the sweet scent of olives was mesmerizing, that the airy dance of cloud was elegant. These he remembered well, but most vividly he could recall that very scene, that very conversation—
“Father, I want to come along,” he had said. “I want to be with you wherever you go, so we can at least share some thrills and fun together.”
“No, Tele,” his father had answered, shaking his head. “I’m sorry, but I can’t bring you on board, not this time.”
“Why?” He had been so confused. “But I’ve always wanted to explore the worlds outside Ithaca, to see the giant oak in Dodona, the reputable land of Calydon, the seven gates of the famous Cadmea…I want to have an adventure, father. Just like you did.”
He remembered that look well. That look his father had gave him, those eyes with such agony, such sadness. Is it panic, panicking at the thought of his son following him down the miserable path that was meant for his own to take? Is it fear, fearing for the life and sanity of his son? Or is it sorrow, sorrowful over the naïve and innocent spirit of his 20-year-old son? Or is it pain, painful about the fact that he doesn’t even qualify as being a father, who never had the chance to see his son through the childhood, and hadn’t gotten to know this brave young man his son has become, before his fate was calling him to sail out again?
For a long time both of them didn’t speak, and the look was growing wearier and wearier and…it seemed as if another decade had passed inside his father’s mind, another decade filled with tribulations and torments. Telemachus couldn’t help but feel his regret. Regret that he ever said those words, regret that he wasn’t with his father when he needed him. The hands. He could feel his father’s hands gripping his shoulders tightly. But finally his father had lower the head, and sighed heavily. In a low voice, Odysseus had begun. “Tele, you have to understand. This cruel world is not as entertaining as it may seem, or sound in those tales. It’s dangerous out there, filled with monsters, storms, ruthless gods, and…and things that can go beyond your very imagination. Things that are so terrible, so overwhelming…”
He hadn’t finished the sentence, instead he was choked with sobs, and Telemachus had felt so guilty, and so helpless. But he had tried his best to withhold his tears, and had started to comfort his father.
“Then I’ll face them bravely, father, like you would do. Like a true son of Odysseus would do.” Telemachus had put up with a smile. “As a true Odysseïdes.”
“Oh Tele…” Odysseus had moaned with tears. “Oh…for ten years I haven’t seen your face, in one month I haven’t gotten to know you better, but look, what an undaunted man you have become, when I’m away!” Finally, he had cracked into a smile. “Yes, that’s my boy!” He had said with sincere happiness, though the pain was still present in his voice. But at least, Odysseus had smiled.
And Telemachus had exhaled with relief.
“Father,” he had continued. “I wouldn’t insist if you really don’t want me along, but I need to know where you’re going, what you’re going to do, and how long I should wait for your return. Could you please tell me, just for mom’s sake and mine?”
And Odysseus had nodded. “Don’t worry about your mother, Telemachus. Penelope knows about this, and you have every right to know it as well.” He had stopped, and looked towards the western sky. As Telemachus followed his gaze, Odysseus continued. “Do you remember the story I’ve told you, about that prophet Teiresias in the Underworld? I had asked him about my fate, and he had answered:
‘…When someone else runs into you and says you've got a shovel used for winnowing on your broad shoulders, then fix that fine oar in the ground there, and make rich sacrifice to lord Poseidon with a ram, a bull, and a boar that breeds with sows. Then leave. Go home, and there make sacred offerings to the immortal gods…’
“So you see, Telemachus, I don’t know where I’ll go to, but I know what I’ll find. It may be a long voyage, or it may be short. Who knows? But I’m going anyway, because I am Laërtiades, son of the honorable Laërtes—one of the legendary Argonauts.”
“I see,” Telemachus had said. “The blood of dauntlessness runs deep in our family.”
“Precisely.” Odysseus had laughed proudly. “You, my son, will also share this honor, in the future perhaps, when you take on a journey of your own, and build your fame with your own feats. But today, the journey is mine to undertake, and with the blessing of the prophet, I’m very certain that I will make it home again.”
“Okay.” With a serious face, Telemachus had nodded. “Then I’ll try not to surpass you.”
They were both grinning when an owl started to whoop from the forest.
“Wait, dad,” Telemachus had suddenly called. “If not this time, then when?”
Odysseus had given him a slight smile. “When I return, son, I shall take you to Dodona, where the oaks are august; then we’ll visit Calydon, where twenty two heroes had once gathered to slay that giant boar; then we shall go to Thebes, where twice had the Argives waged war against, one of them being the father of a king whom I have befriended; and then,” Odysseus had patted Telemachus’s right shoulder. “Then I will bring you to Pylos again. And know that I won’t be gone for long. This is a promise.”
“Swear it on the river of Styx?”
“I swear it, on the river of Styx.”
Gradually, Telemachus had returned the smile. “Thank you, dad.” He had said, voice cracked with the bittersweet taste in his throat. “Thank you so much.”
He remembered the hug, the kiss, and the departure of his father clearly. He remembered how often he had doubted that whether his father would ever make it back again. He remembered that worried look of his mother, who had often stood by the shores of Ithaca, waiting, waiting. But he also remembered, that Odysseus had made a promise.
And here they were, in Pylos again, weren’t they?
And it only took him eight months, didn’t it?
So, there’s nothing to worry about. After all, there’s nothing that can waver the resolve of Odysseus’s homecoming. And thus he shall always return. Always.
All because of his love, and his promise.
Telemachus nodded to this fact. Love, and promise. That’s what my father was proud of. And if I have found the courage to love, to make a promise, then will Odysseus be proud of me, even with the knowledge that I may travel afar, likely into an ocean of danger, and a sea of trouble?
Then will we get to have our adventure, and get back safely? Will we get to tell our tales, and make our own story?
So to Peisistratus he said these words, with all his heart:
“And I’m sure we will. Of this I give you my promise.”
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