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spite-and-waffles · 1 year

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I'm going to start taking it personally when people say the girls are less of a disasterfire than the boys. No the fuck they aren't. They're completely dysfunctional, self-destructive, arrogant little goblins who've never met (1)healthy coping mechanism. They're Bats for Christ's sake. What comics have you even been reading.

#Babs is only marginally more well-adjusted than Bruce and thats only because she has Dinah hovering over her with a rolled up newspaper #when I say she Cass have a mother-daughter relationship I mean the kind where the mother realizes her kid is some kinda karmic retribution #for having been cocky little shit with all of three brain cells and no self-preservation instinct #and if she thought Cass was bad #one day Babs is going to snap and Steph is going to find herself shipped to Tuvalu in a crate #in an ideal universe we'd have Charlie and Black Alice in the Clock Tower as well for maximum chaos #Steph @ Charlie: 'She's like a Little Me!!!' Babs: *flatly* 'I'd noticed'#Steph @ Charlie: 'I will call you Squishy and you will be my Squishy' Babs: 'she's not a *puppy* Steph'#Steph distributing 'DAAARK VENGEANCE' t-shirts insisting it's the Team Batgirl catchphrase #Wendy: 'stop trying to make the Team Batgirl catchphrase happen. it's not going to happen.' Steph: 'it's called MANIFESTING'#stephanie brown #steph meta #barbara gordon #cassandra cain #cass meta #batfamily headcanons #bat. meta #batfamily #spite waffle

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theerurishipper · 3 months

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Honestly, I do love Dick as Nightwing and Bruce and Dick's complicated relationship, but sometimes I like the old days when things were sweet and simple you know? When it was just them and Alfred and they all had fun with each other. Like when they blew off boring parties to go on patrol by using Dick's bedtime as an excuse. When Bruce let Dick go off on his own and said he was allowed "a little escapade" and ruffled his hair. When Alfred always brought coffee and "turkey sandwiches with Swiss cheese" to the Batcave while Dick and Bruce happily talked about their nightlife escapades. When Dick would make Bruce laugh regularly.

When they discussed Hamlet while riding in the Batmobile. When Alfred picked Dick up from school and dropped him off on dates and helped him go behind Bruce's back on cases. When Dick and Bruce would play fight with each other. When Dick made Batman's meetings with Gordon "more optimistic." When Bruce was being a helicopter parent and wanting to know why Dick would want to go to a public school. When Dick would sneak off with Clark when Bruce wanted him to stay back to finish his homework, and Clark did it for him before Bruce noticed. When Bruce teased Dick about his failed date, and they talked about it and their love lives. When Bruce apparently told stories about Joker to Dick during rides in the Batmobile. When Dick was actually the one who named the aforementioned Batmobile. When they would banter even in between a serious case. When Dick would cling onto Bruce to annoy him. When Dick was contemplating how alone he felt, and Bruce just showed up to catch him and do a routine on the trapeze with him. When Bruce would call Dick "kiddo." When Dick even called him stuff like "Bruce-ter." When Bruce used to call Dick "chum." I miss those days.

Yeah a lot of these are from Robin: Year One but that's just because it's the one I remember most. But there's a lot of them just having a good time and it doesn't feel like we see a lot of that anymore.

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soleminisanction · 3 days

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I think my least favorite internet criticism of Meghan Fitzmartin is the idea that she "just wanted to push her ship," meaning Tim/Bernard. Because honestly? I think that's straight-up bullshit.

Having read the Urban Legends stories, the Pride Special reprint, Tim Drake: Robin and Young Justice Dark Crisis, plus what interviews and social media she's been doing as these comics came out, there is zero evidence to me to back that statement up. If that were true, the Urban Legends stories probably would've been more about bringing Bernard back and re-establishing him as a character. Y'know, building up their relationship.

But it wasn't about their relationship. It was about Tim and his feelings, his internal conflict, what he needed. That's what Fitzmartin even said in the interviews after, that she, "felt like this was something Tim needed." And that's true going into TD:R too -- yeah, Bernard is there and their relationship is a prominent subplot, but he gets about as much page time as Darcy and Detective Williams, and the focus is always on Tim's ongoing story and his developing relationships with all the people around him.

That's why I like that they went with Bernard as his "closet key." Not because I'm super devoted to the pairing or anything -- I truly could take or leave the arrangement -- but because they're tolerably cute together and, more importantly, dating a civilian supporting character comes with far less baggage than establishing a relationship with a fellow hero. By their very nature, superhero stories are more heavily weighted towards the hero characters than their civilian support, that's just a fact, and, with rare exception, civilian love interests tend to act more as sounding boards to develop and reflect the leads. Making Tim's first boyfriend an old civilian friend means the story could be about Tim's personal character growth, internal conflict, and explorations of his sexuality.

I genuinely think that's the only reason Fitzmartin went with Bernard. She only had around 30 pages to tell that Urban Legends story (and I guarantee you, she was assigned that page count before writing), so bringing back a previous civilian friend meant she didn't have to try to establish a whole new relationship on top of introducing a villain faction and telling a superhero-based investigation story. And for whatever reason, Bernard was the most popular of Tim's civilian buddies to rare-pair him with before this all happened. (Just check AO3: Prior to the release of the Urban Legends stories, Tim/Bernard had ~42 fics, Sebastian Ives got 4, and Danny Temple had 1.)

When Meghan Fitzmartin says that she went back, read Tim's old stories, and felt he needed to come out of the closet, I believe her. And I'm happy she felt that way and was allowed to act on those feelings because it's something I felt too, reading those stories. Those feelings that had nothing to do with "ships" or even with characters like Kon or Dick and everything to do with Tim and who he is as a person.

To sweep all that away as "she just wants to push her preferred ship" just feels so... dismissive and rude.

#dc comics #tim drake #bernard dowd #meghan fitzmartin #tim drake robin #tim/bernard #meta #that page limit ftr is also probably why the tim/steph breakup happened off panel #there's only so much space and it wasn't important to see it just that it happened #95 percent of the time if someone says 'this creator is pushing their ship' I assume they're wrong #because they almost always are

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reineydraws · 1 year

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based on that one bert and ernie behind the scenes photo of jim henson & co. :')

i drew this for fun and then i started thinking about how robin could be a two-person puppet dick's parents created and puppeteered together and dick inherits it when they die and he ends up passing it along to subsequent siblings to use together when he creates his own nightwing one and then i got emotional about it + the inherent quality of family-as-legacy that the robin puppet represents 🥺🥺 they have to share the role. robin means not being alone!!

bonus lol:

#batfamily #batfamily fanart #jason todd #dick grayson #bruce wayne #dc #dc fanart #batman #batman fanart #wayne family adventures #robin #robin dc #dc robin #pls imagine jason and tim playing robin together #lmao actually this works for tim in meta bc tim ends up having to play robin the longest #he plays robin with jason AND steph AND damian #CAN U IMAGINE TIM AND DAMI HAVING TWO PLAY TWO ARMS OF THE SAME PUPPET LMAOO #i can just picture dami biting tim bc tim refuses to give up being the main body and damian's annoyed and has to be right by tim's armpit #and tim has a tendency to shove him a little when dami gets extra annoying so once in retaliation dami just bites tim's tricep #of the arm that's controlling robin's body haha. rip tim.#jason graduating from robin to his own puppet: im gonna make a muppet that is SO cool........#and then proceeds to just get no's all around bc 'we cant air puppets with guns jason' and #'if you want a leather jacket that small youll have to make it yourself jason'#also jason doesnt want to admit that the red hood helmet gets heavy on his arm after having to hold it up all day but everyone can tell lol

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bitimdrake · 1 year

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everyone in the mutual circle is already having smart opinions about the “if you had to make one bat character never have existed at all” poll (that people largely voted on without having any thought at all) but to add my two cents:

if you get rid of Bruce none of the other characters ever exist either. No exceptions. I love dunking on Bruce more than anyone, but come on, let’s be serious here. (However if you would like to get rid of the entire batfamily bar none, good news!)

if you get rid of Dick, there will never be a Robin. None of the following batboys will ever exist in any form. Batman might still get a partner of some kind, but it may or may not be a kid sidekick, so assume you will also lose any parent/child dynamics too. idk who would pick this option.

if you get rid of Barbara, none of the other Batgirls will exist either, and also it’s a 50/50 tossup if there is ever a significant presence of female vigilantes in Batman comics. Too risky.

if you get rid of Tim, you don’t get to be all “omg third robin steph!’ because Steph will therefore only appear in one story arc ever (her first, trying to get her dad caught) and never appear again, doomed to be a minor note in history instead of a recurring and eventually main character. On the other hand, there is a chance that Lonnie Machin becomes the new Robin instead soooo

getting rid of Jason the character doesn’t honestly impact that much (we’ll get some other Robin replacement in the 80s), but getting rid of Jason Todd, Dead Specter Haunting Batman, Eternal Ghost Of The Batcave changes the vibe of an entire era and risks losing or significantly changing every subsequent character. Living Jason is minor; Dead Jason is a keystone.

for such an iconic, popular, constantly appearing character, Alfred...really has almost no impact on the universe

if you get rid of Cass, you honestly aren’t going to cause a lot of ripple effects either. The universe will be fine. However, you will have to spend the rest of your life knowing you got rid of Cass, you monster

#*#*dc #dc #dc meta #batfam #steph has some effect but not too huge #and i want to say duke and even damian don't effect *that* much but that would require me to think deeply about the reboot so nah #[this post brought to you by needing to fill time while i wait for a download]

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syrena-del-mar · 5 months

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Dead Friend Forever Is More Than Just A 90s Slasher Film Imitation

Oh man, I went in thinking I would just get a whole lot of gore and murder, and instead I'm getting a buttload of social class distinction, parental issues, mental health crises, organized crime, and a highly-likely revenge plot line.

The thing about Dead Friend Forever is that it starts unassuming, almost like an copy of all other teen slashers from the 90s. A group of friends, up in a cabin and suspects to a potential murder, become hunted one-by-one. A cliche slasher plot if I ever heard one. Until it’s not. This show is taking up a very big corner of my brain, so I’m going to delve deeper into it.

If you haven't watched episode 6 yet, spoilers up ahead.

Pulling inspiration from 90s slasher re-inventor, Scream

The first four episodes really set up the expectation that DFF was going to be another slasher, seemingly particularly influenced by Scream (1996). Scream was a turning point for slasher movies, signaling a shift in from the movies of the 80s to that of the 90s. It was the first of many movies to allow for the characters to be self-aware of what genre they're working in, where the characters knew of the slasher-movie tropes and attempted to do everything right to survive. Scream is also the first slasher to truly humanize the killers, and I don't mean by making them empathetic, but rather the killers were human, so they made human mistakes. Prior to Scream, the antagonists in slasher films were usually this supernatural villain that was just murder-hungry. But in Scream, the killers are all just regular people and would often make mistakes on their way to kill the protagonists, like a normal human would. It's why Scream was scary, the killer could be anyone, it wasn't this supernatural being. And even when you're making the right choices to escape, you still end up dead.

In Dead Friend Forever, we're getting so many of the same tropes that Scream had subverted. The group is working understanding exactly what they're facing; Fluke warning to not pull out the stake inside Por, Top wanting to split up in the temple while Phee, Jin and Tan veto against it expressly stating it would be like the horror movies, White not wanting to be left behind in the cabin. They all know what they shouldn't be doing while there is a killer on the loose. Also, it's why there's these funny little moments of the killer in DFF (i.e. having to steal the motorcycle to get back to the cabin). I'm not completely convinced that there isn't any paranormal activity or at least some type hallucinogen-component at play, but the way the killer acts is very human-like. Not to mention the parallel of Barcode (arguably the most popular actor in the show) getting slashed in the first minute of the show, eerily similar to how in the opening scene of Scream, Drew Barrymore (the most well-known of the cast) gets killed immediately.

The Benefits of Series Format versus Movie Format

The series format is where I think Dead Friend Forever is really shining the most. @wen-kexing-apologist made an awesome post on the directorial direction this show is taking, particularly in how since the first four episodes we have very little context as to why the killings are occurring or even the state of everyone's relationship, we're freely able to form opinions on each character. Similarly, prior to getting to know what happened to Non, I also thought Tee was the better one of the group. But here we are, two episodes later and I find him to be the most detestable of the bunch (which says something, when Por and Top are competing in this category).

We're seeing and experiencing the absolute hell that this friend group had actively made (sans Jin and Fluke that suffer from the bystander effect) Non's life out to be. In a regular slasher movie, especially ones that model themselves after Scream, we find out why the Killer is doing what he's doing to the victims in the last quarter of the movie, but the emotional value is a little skewed. The little amount of time we spend learning about what the victims did to the Killer usually still leaves you feeling at least a smidge of pity for the victims and some joy that the Final Girl made it. Here, the mass consensus is that each and every one of them should die.

And it comes back to the luxury of spending several episodes in a flashback to what lead up to the killings after the game of cat-and-mouse has begun. We're introduced to Non as an outsider, where everyone, but Jin, has already formed a bad opinion of Non. They already have a brutal nickname for him (read @forkaround's awesome analysis on the term 'Greasy'). They already established that he's an outsider in the classroom, but they make an active point of only referring to him as 'Greasy' and Non just accepts it. We see the friend group frame him, causing him to spiral twice to point of suicide, proceed to prey on him into a money laundering scheme, get him caught in a criminal investigation, all while already undergoing mental health treatment. We're given that time to know and see the pain that Non is caused, the manipulation that he is put under, and ultimately the devastation that they've caused.

Dead Friends Forever is more than just another teen slasher, because it has time. And it's using its time wisely, giving us bits and pieces of information in the beginning before delving into something more sinister than the killer on the loose, the original five. Run-of-the-mill bullying has turned into framing, assault and other criminal activity, even murder. And yet, while Non is the one that has disappeared (or died), the other five have been able to make a life for themselves without suffering any of the consequences. It's showing exactly what they have done to deserve everything that is coming to them.

Final Thoughts

Man, Be on Cloud is truly blowing it out of the water with this show. I'm actually a bit sad that it's only barely starting to get the recognition that it deserves, because in my opinion, it's just that good, BUT I also understand why it's had a sleepy start. It's in an place, a BL in one sense, but not exactly a BL in any other. I've said it before, but no matter what you think of BOC as a management company, the stories that they tell are unique and they have the artists that are competent enough to deliver. Be on Cloud has, allegedly, allowed the writers take the reign on the show, even if this means messing with the couples, so even more chaos is going to occur. This is, frankly, exciting to see and experience the story as they want it to be told.

I said this when I first saw Barcode in KinnPorsche deliver that heartbreaking cry, that boy knows how to cry. He was a newbie and his stole that scene. Now this is his third show under his belt and his acting chops only continue to improve, I truly can't wait to see what more he is able to do here in Dead Friend Forever. I love that Sammon is also enjoying what Barcode has able to bring forth in Non and that all her worries have been eased. I truly think that Barcode is going to have an incredible career ahead of him, whether in music or in acting.

Ta, on the other hand, also deserves his share of accolades. I wasn't sure of how to read to Phee in the first four episodes, but with the information that episode 6 has given us? The picture has cleared significantly and now, having rewatched his scenes, everything makes sense on why he seemed to be conniving. Episode 6 had some of the strongest performances and yet the biggest gasp I made was in the last minute. The singular tear rolling down Phee's cheek after having to perform the two-finger method, to have Non throw up the pills, and holding him in his arms? Quite literally jaw-dropping.

Sammon has a strong repertoire of shows, so I have complete faith that she knows what she's doing for Dead Friend Forever. I hope this becomes as much of a cult favorite, much like Manner of Death and Triage.

Anyways if you need me, I'll probably be stuck thinking about PheeNon for the next week until episode 7 airs.

#dead friend forever #dead friend forever the series #dead friend forever meta #dff meta #dff the series #barcode tinnasit #ta nannakun #copper phuriwat #pheenon #be on cloud #pheejin #tabarcode #boc actors #thai bl #thai bl meta #bl meta #steph rambles

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cassandracain52 · 9 days

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A canon compliant guide of Bruce Wayne’s officially adopted children

I noticed there has been some confusion about who all in the BatFam is actually legally adopted by Bruce Wayne so I thought I’d try and help clear some things up.

(Full disclosure you can of course headcanon whatever you like, I made this is strictly to help newer fans know what is actually canon💕)

Dick Grayson: Adopted

(Batman: Gotham Knights #17 and Batman #600)

Many fans argue over whether or not Dick is officially adopted, many saying it was never official and he is still just his ward.

Though he does admittedly usually spend the majority of his actual childhood as a ward, Bruce ends up officially adopting Dick as his son(as I have explained before here)in multiple timelines

Barbara Gordon: Not Adopted

(Batgirl and the Birds Of Prey Rebirth)

There was never a need for Barbara to be adopted because she still has a Dad. She is however still very much in the BatFamily and has trained under and with Bruce

Jason Todd: Adopted

(The New Titans (1988) #55 and Batman: A Lonely Place of Dying)

Now I couldn’t track down a comic where we actually get to see Bruce adopt Jason, but there are plenty of instances in which his adoption is referenced -including but not limited to these two- throughout several timelines and reboots

Cassandra Cain: Adopted

(Batgirl 2008 #6)

Now this one is a bit more debatable as aside from this one instance, Cass’ adoption is never really mentioned again even after the timeline gets rebooted. Still the general consensus is that Cassandra’s adoption is considered canon.

Tim Drake: Adopted

(Batman #654 and Red Robin #4)

Though Tim declines Bruce’s offer of being adopted at first, we get to see Bruce adopt Tim as his son about a year or so later. His adoption is also referenced across multiple reboots

Stephanie Brown: Not Adopted

(Batgirls #13, Robin (1993) #174, and Robin (1993) #126)

Now the main reason Stephanie is not and probably will not be adopted is because both her parents are alive. While her Dad is a villain and out of the picture, her mother is a nurse and fully capable of taking care of her.

Bruce does however train her during her brief stint as Robin and much like Barbara she is no less apart of the BatFamily, she’s just not in the Wayne Family

Duke Thomas: Not Adopted (technically)

(All Star Batman #1 and Batman & the Signal #3)

Now Duke is never officially adopted because technically his parents are alive just insane due to Joker’s toxin of which there is no cure. However Bruce does take him in and let him stay at the manor and it is heavily implied he becomes Duke’s foster parent so do with that what you will

Damian Wayne: Not Adopted/Biological child

(Batman and Robin (2011) #0)

Damian is Bruce’s one and only biological child -of the main canon- and therefore does not need to be adopted because you don’t need to adopt your own child

And that’s all of Bruce’s official and unofficial children in the main canon!💕🖤

#Don’t even get me started on the whole Meta verse “everything is canon” nonsense because I straight up don’t even know #I’m pretty sure everyone can pick and choose canon at this point and not be entirely wrong #So don’t let this stop you from head canon-ing your heart away #Babs and Steph not being adopted is a good thing because that would make them brother kissers #don’t take this too seriously #I didn’t have time to go track down more sources so hopefully this is sufficient #batfam #dc comics #bruce wayne #A guide for Bruce Wayne’s children #hope this helps #Honestly I don’t care much either way if people make Duke Bruce’s official son #Pop off #let people enjoy things #canon is a suggestion #I left Damian out once cause I was just doing adopted kids and someone told me I “forgot him”#So he’s here this time #But like I hope everyone knows Damian is not adopted #Ignore my aggressive italicizing #I do it a lot

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mzminola · 1 year

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Bruce sets up an elaborate mindfuck for Tim's birthday in an attempt to make Tim less trusting of even allies, giving him a mental breakdown. Bruce claims this will make Tim a better vigilante.

Tim, upon figuring it out, throws his Robin uniform literally in Bruce's face, cussing him out (like, actually censored swears, which Tim usually doesn't use), and quits. He talks with Steph about how messed up it was, and she empathizes out of her own messed up experiences with Bruce.

An unclear but short time later, probably a few days, Tim un-quits and states to Bruce that he doesn't expect an apology (not because it's unnecessary, but because he knows Bruce).

~

Stephanie returns from presumed death, finds Bruce, and accepts his orders to not reveal herself to everyone else & to take extreme actions to, once again in Bruce's estimate, make Tim a better vigilante.

This includes running around town in her original costume so Tim thinks his dead friend has a copycat, hiring people to attack him, working with a bomber, and even after knocking all that off, not sharing pertinent information about it with Tim, resulting in Tim being caught in an explosion.

Tim yells at Stephanie and says "Don't let me catch you wearing [the Spoiler] costume ever again." When she tracks him down a little later, he refuses to speak with her.

An unclear amount of time later, probably a few months, Tim is willing to work with Stephanie to stop a supervillain plot.

~

Some fans treat Tim's word-choice in the confrontation with Steph as him trying to control her. As him thinking he's got the authority to decide who can and cannot operate as a vigilante, at least in Gotham.

But. Like. One, aside from this one conversation, he takes no actions to stop her. He doesn't steal her gear (like Bruce sometimes steals people's uniform), he doesn't go and tell other people to stop working with her, he doesn't even go snitch to her mom.

Tim just. Tells the friend who got him very badly hurt while mindfucking him that he doesn't want to see her in the field again.

Two, it's a pretty dang similar response to when Bruce mindfucked him in the first example. Tim is the one who insists Batman needs a Robin. And here he is depriving Batman of Robin.

Yet if I tried to claim "Tim quitting Robin is his attempt to control Batman, is Tim acting like he has authority to stop Bruce from being a vigilante" you'd laugh in my face. Because that is a huge leap to make, with convoluted logic, and isn't supported by the rest of the text.

Bruce & Stephanie both screw Tim up really badly.

He confronts them and says he's breaking ties.

Then after a little distance, he goes right back to working with them.

And some people think this is...controlling? Don't get me wrong, Tim has some controlling tendencies, they all do, but it's usually teaming up with Alfred to stop Bruce patrolling while injured, and lying his ass off to everyone so he can do what he wants.

This? Is not that.

#Robin 1993 #and a little bit of RR #Bruce Wayne Critical #Stephanie Brown Critical #DC #Batfam #comics meta #Tim Drake #meanwhile Cass nerve strikes both Steph and Babs at least once each #to stop them from following her or stopping her when she wants to go do something dangerous alone #and nobody talks shit about her for THAT #I love Cass! she is simply not exempt from Being An Asshole sometimes #and it does drive me a bit buggy that like...#it never comes up in these discussions #Bruce Wayne #Stephanie Brown #characters are all tagged for archival purposes #dunno if this is Fandom Critical or just Fandom Exasperated

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fantastic-nonsense · 5 months

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Wasn’t it Alfred who’d made Damian Robin in Battle for the Cowl? Dick must have agreed after the fact, but Alfred was the one who set it in motion.

Nominally yes, in the sense that Alfred is the person who first put the cape in Damian's hands:

"You can't keep me here." "I'll do no such thing. But understand that you've been injured. Severely so." ......."What the hell are you pulling here, Al?" "It's time to earn your keep. If you're up for it." "So long as I'm not wasting any more time in here, whatever." -Battle for the Cowl #3

However, the reality is "not really." Three things to note about this:

One: no one in the story who actually knows what Damian's gotten up to while Dick was tracking down Tim and fighting Jason actually treats Damian as Robin. For the purposes of the narrative and everyone in it, Tim is still Robin, as Squire points out:

"I'm sure Nightwing could use a hand finding Robin. This way, then." -Battle for the Cowl #3

We don't really see anyone else's reaction to Damian wearing the cape in BftC. Even when Damian saves Tim while wearing the symbol, Tim has no actual reaction besides a single exclamation of Damian's name, and he seems more bewildered that Damian is there at all than he is about Damian wearing the Robin tunic. But the people we do see? Don't treat him as Robin. They treat him as an ally who happens to be wearing the Robin tunic for convenience.

Two: within the bounds of BftC, Damian is explicitly framed as being "Dick's responsibility" with Bruce gone. After Jason shoots Damian, Dick has the same conversation with Alfred that Bruce often did whenever one of his Robins was hurt, framed in a way that made it obvious where things were heading:

"Damian...this child...I could have gotten him killed tonight. I have a responsibility to him now. I let him down, Alfred." "Bruce also said the same of you...and Master Timothy, many times over the years." "And of Jason Todd." "Him as well." -Battle for the Cowl #2

Dick has already implicitly accepted Damian as his Robin at this point. And though Dick and Tim have not explicitly discussed it (as we see via their argument in Red Robin #1), it was also fairly clear that Tim would not be Dick's Robin based on how Dick thought of Tim by that point (as his brother, as his equal, as someone who should not be taking orders from him full-time). Tim had already spent time as the Robin to Dick's Batman back in Prodigal, and both boys had come a long way since then. Once Dick decided to take up the cowl at the end of BftC #2, it was inevitable that Damian would be his Robin rather than Tim (for a whole host of reasons I won't get into here). Alfred just hastened that inevitability.

Three: simply wearing the cape does not make you Robin. You are Robin if and only if two things happen: you have been explicitly accepted by Batman as his partner and Dick Grayson has given his blessing. You are a potential Robin. You are an ally wearing a Robin costume. But you are not Robin until those things happen.

Tim was not Robin in A Lonely Place of Dying even though he stole the costume with Alfred's help to save Bruce and Dick. Tim did not become Robin until after both Bruce and Dick had accepted him as such and he went through a training period (he was known as "Little Bat" until then, btw). The same is true of Damian, who wore the Robin tunic at least three times prior to actually becoming Robin (Bruce briefly took him out while wearing it in Batman and Son and he famously wore it during the events of Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul); he was no more Robin then than he was in BtfC.

The costume isn't what makes you Robin. Batman saying you're Robin and Dick giving the blessing of his parents' legacy to you makes you Robin (which. I will freely admit that's a loaded, complicated topic given the history of how the Robin mantle has been passed down over the years. but it generally holds true). Damian properly becoming Robin after BftC was clearly Dick's choice; Alfred can't "make" anyone Robin if Batman doesn't agree.

The core conceptual problem with Battle for the Cowl (well. there's about 5000 problems with BtfC. but you know what I mean) is that it tries to deal with about fifty different things at once, most of which all ordinarily would have gotten their own dedicated space across multiple books or tie-in comics to deal with. Instead, all of these things are smushed into a single massive threeshot event comic with awful characterization and a near-incomprehensible chain of events. In a perfect world, we would have gotten the same kind of build-up and transition between Tim and Damian that we did in the 90s when Tim became Robin after Jason's death. Unfortunately that's not what we got, so we're left to fill in the gaps ourselves.

But textually, Alfred did not make Damian Robin. Alfred handed an ally to the cause a Robin tunic during a crisis specifically for the purpose of rescuing Robin. After that crisis was over, Batman chose to make that same ally his Robin for reasons entirely unrelated to his wearing the symbol during that specific crisis. Dick chose Damian to be his Robin, and that choice should not be looked over just because removing it conveniently lifts some of the hurt feelings and messiness of that transition off of Dick's shoulders.

Dick handled his own legacy, as he should have. And while he did not handle it with as much communication and grace as he should have or probably would have liked to, it was his mantle and legacy to handle at the end of the day. For once, he had complete agency over choosing a successor to his heroing legacy (and his parents' legacy), not Bruce or Alfred or anyone who self-appointed themselves as a successor, and we should acknowledge and respect that.

He didn't pick Damian because Alfred unilaterally gave him a battlefield promotion; he picked Damian because he thought Tim was grown and independent enough to thrive without taking his orders every day and believed Damian needed his direct oversight and the growth opportunity being Robin would provide more than Tim did. Allow Dick the dignity of his choices instead of acting like he had no input or say in the matter of who his Robin was going to be.

#sidenote for my own peace of mind I just pretend that Dick gave Steph his blessing off-panel #everyone else got his on-panel blessing at some point except her so I just. fill in the gaps for her.#dick grayson #alfred pennyworth #damian wayne #tim drake #dick grayson meta #damian wayne meta #tim drake meta #(sort of)#long post #asks #queue

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eddens-the-reporter · 3 months

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The one thing I never see get brought up is that by the time Jason Todd confronts Tim at Titans Tower, Tim is on his second go-round at being Robin.

Tim’s dad made him give up Robin. At this point, the Robin that came before Tim - the Robin that most recently died - is Stephanie, not Jason. (As an aside, I don’t think Jason knows this because I don’t think Jason cares about any tragedies that happened after him - as in I don’t think he can wrap his head around life really truly carrying on without him.)

And so Jason challenges Tim on whether he deserves Robin as though it’s something Tim has never had to consider. Jason thinks he’s playing mind games; he hopes Tim will come out of this with self-doubt and mistrust in Batman. Tim, meanwhile, very recently watched someone else take over as Robin - directly as a result of him stepping away - fuck up massively, and get herself killed. Tim had to have considered not only whether he wants to be Robin, independently of what Jack Drake and Batman seem to need, but whether he’s good enough to do the job. You could make the argument that Tim didn’t fully know what he was getting into when he first started; you can’t say that anymore at this point. Jason is interesting because surprise! he’s alive! but none of what he says or does is remotely new territory for Tim at this point.

It’s also important to me to note that Tim really loved and mourned Steph, much more than he cared about Jason. I don’t think this does anything to Tim’s belief that he’s better at being Robin than Steph was, but in my heart it does mean that he wouldn’t accept Jason claiming any special authority because he died as Robin; Steph did too.

(And on the subject of Titans Tower timing, in-universe we are maybe a couple months after Jack Drake’s dying words to his son being that he was proud of him for being Robin, so do with that what you will)

Idk, I think there’s some interesting stuff to consider in the way that this comic makes Jason seem stuck in a time period when tragedies were more shocking and faith in heroes was more groundbreaking. He doesn’t know how to challenge the Robin of the present, who’s so familiar with grief and uncertainty that it doesn’t faze him in the same way it would - did? - faze Jason. Like, would it have shaken Tim more if Jason had known to bring up Stephanie? If Jason had questioned whether Tim is honouring Steph and his father by being Robin, and whether Tim thinks it would get someone killed (again) if he stopped? Would it have thrown Jason if Tim brought up Stephanie?

#to be clear in this household we do not hold stephanie accountable for anything #we absolutely blame batman for everything we possibly can #saying steph fucked up as robin is shorthand for batman didn’t support her and it blew up in both their faces #just couldn’t fit anything more into this meta post it got out of hand as it is #jason todd #tim drake #dc robin #titans tower #batman

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man-down-in-hatchet-town · 1 year

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Max And Order

It’s interesting how the ghost of Max “I bring order to Hatchetfield High” Jagerman, who spent his life ferociously enforcing assigned social strata, only ever murders his classmates after they experience moments of growth and break from the roles they’ve always played. Max attacks Richie after Richie gains friendship and acceptance from the popular athletes, going from an invisible nobody in a costume to a “bro” and crucial member of the team. And by making Richie ask who will bother to pray for him after he dies, Max even forces Richie back into a place of alienation and loneliness right before the end. Ruth is targeted after she performs onstage for the first time, “just for once” conceptualizing herself as the star of the show and not the unseen stagehand. Then, as Max murders her, he pretends she’s the leading lady in a snuff-play, using her own dream against her.

This even holds true for Steph and Pete—Max toys with them for several scenes in Act 2, but only swoops in for the actual kill after Steph and Pete finally admit their feelings for each other, Pete proves himself to be very cool indeed, and Steph agrees to a (very hypothetical) date, violating the very boundaries Max literally beat into Pete just two weeks earlier. And that’s not even to mention how Steph killing Pete, at his own request, violates Max’s desire that both simply be powerless victims of their fate.

Sure it’s different with the adult victims, but when it comes to the classmates he domineered in life, it’s not the just “nerdy prudes” that he targets first, but those who dare to defy Jagerman’s sense of order. A god complex, indeed.

I dunno, it’s just such a smart and subtle set-up and payoff. The Langs are really freakin' good at what they do.

#hatchetfield #hatchetfield meta #nerdy prudes must die #npmd #nerdy prudes must die spoilers #npmd spoilers #max jagerman #richie lipschitz #ruth fleming #steph lauter #pete spankoffski

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spite-and-waffles · 1 year

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None of the Bats like organized sports except for Stephanie, because she's a bloodthirsty gremlin and the only jock in a family of nerds and theater kids. It's been pointed out that her night job has no lack of very fit men engaging in violent contact either, but she says she needs to see them do it bloodier for stupider reasons, like ice hockey.

#stephanie brown #steph meta #bat meta #crack meta #batfamily #batkids #dc comics #dcu #spite waffle

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boyfriendgideon · 11 months

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as yr favorite local jason todd fan sometimes i get so fed up with the apparent inability of most dc comic writers to write a class conscious narrative about him.

and yes, i know that comics are a very ephemeral and constantly evolving and self-conflicting medium.

and yes, i know they’re a profit-driven art medium created in a capitalistic society, so there are very few times where comics are going to be created solely out of the desire to authentically and carefully and deliberately represent a character and take them from one emotional narrative place to another, because dc cares about profit and sometimes playing it safe is what sells.

and yes, i know comics and other forms of art reflect and recreate the society within which they were conceived as ideas, and so the dominant societal ideas about gender and race and class and so on are going to be recreated within comics (and/or will be responded to, if the writer is particularly societally conscious).

but jesus christ. you (the writer/writers) have a working class character who has been homeless, who has lost multiple parents, who has been in close proximity to someone struggling with addiction, who has had to steal to survive, who may have (depending on your reading of several different moments across different comics created by different people) been a victim of csa, who has clearly (subtextually) struggled with his mental health, who was a victim of a violent murder, and who has an entirely distinct and unique perspective on justice that has evolved based on his lived experiences.

and instead of delving into any of that, or examining the myriad of ways that classism in the writers’ room and the editors’ room and the readers’ heads affected jason’s character to make sure you’re writing him responsibly, or giving him a plotline where his views on what justice looks like are challenged by another working class character, or allowing him to demonstrate actual autonomy and agency in deciding what relationships he wants to have with people who he loves but sees as having failed him in different ways, or thinking carefully about what his having chosen an alias that once belonged to his murderer says about his decision-making and motivations, you keep him stuck in a loop of going by the red hood, addressing crime by occupying a position of relative power that perpetuates crime & harm rather than ever getting at the root causes, and seesawing between a) agreeing with his adoptive family entirely about fighting nonlethally in ways that are often inconsistent with his apparent motivations or b) disagreeing and experiencing unnecessarily brutal and violent reactions from his adoptive father as if that kind of violence isn’t the kind of thing he experienced as a child and something bruce himself is trying to prevent jason from perpetuating. because a comic with red hood, quips, high stakes, and familial drama sells.

it doesn’t matter if it keeps jason trapped, torn between an unanswered moral and philosophical question, a collection of identities that no longer fit him, and a family that accepts him circumstantially. it doesn’t matter if jason’s characterization is so utterly inconsistent that the only way to mesh it together is to piece different aspects of different titles and plotlines together like a jigsaw. it doesn’t matter if you do a disservice to his character, because in the end you don’t want to transform him or even understand him deeply enough to identify what makes him compelling and focus on that.

and i love jason!!!!! i love him. and i think about the stories we could have, if quality and art and doing justice to the character were prioritized as much as selling a title and having a dark and brooding batfam member besides bruce just to be the black sheep character are prioritized. and i just get a little sad.

#jason todd #jason todd meta #red hood #batfam #batman #dc comics #comic analysis #classism #tw: csa mention #maybe someday half of the most intriguing and nuanced aspects of his character will be touched upon #red hood outlaw 51-52 had some cool moments wrt jason + class + hometown friends + systems of power but. that was a two issue arc #and even then it was admittedly messy #GOD i want him to be three dimensional and well rounded and well used #even if a writer wrote a fucking. filler comic for an annual or smthn exploring what jason does outside of being red hood #keep the name if u want. have him have deliberately taken the name of his killer and twisted it until ppl from his city know rh #as a protector of kids and the poor and sex workers and so on. that WORKS. but show him connecting w his community #have him get involved in mutual aid. have him do something when he’s not out as red hood at night. let us see jason & barbara interact more #or jason and steph !!!!!!!! or another positive but complicated dynamic (he has a lot of those)#i just. i think that his stagnancy makes me fucking sad. i liked some aspects of task force z. felt like it ended too soon tho #FUCK the joker lets unpack his self concept & have him be a real person outside of vigilanteism (?) and vengeance #i liked some aspects of the cheer arc in batman urban legends mostly bc he had SOME agency and bc he wasn’t completely flat #even tho i hate the retconning of robin jason being angry and moody and so on #part of the problem is we don’t see him too too often for more than semi brief appearances so im so happy to see him i’ll just accept it #love the idea of a nightwing & red hood team up comic. hate that tom taylor a) wrote it and b) gave jason that stupid ass line abt justice #u think this man trusts cops ????? or the legal system !????????? BITCH.#get jason todd into like a sociology / gender and intersectionality / feminist studies class NOWWWWW #ok im done im sleepy and going to watch nimona. thx for reading to anyone who did #PLS anyone who reads this let me know what u think im frothing at the mouth rn #wes.txt #mine

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welcometogrouchland · 3 months

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I love Steph's origin as told in the Secret Origins 80 page giant- I just overall think it strengthens her character by giving her a lot of pathos and adding to her heroism (which isn't something writers were focused on in her actual intro in detective comics #647 since she was just meant to act as a plot device back then) BUT there is one tiny detail in it i will begrudge, and that is the portrayal of her having a minor love at first sight moment for tim

Secret origins 80 page giant, ID in alt

(or well, technically this was their second meeting in that story (the brick was the first) so...love at second sight?)

Mostly because Stephanie showed no interest in her introduction and only showed romantic feelings towards Tim AFTER this moment here:

Robin (1993) #4, ID in alt

Straight up the progression here goes:

The adventure in 'tec where they first meet -> Tim investigating the same crime scene as Steph -> she beats him up not knowing it's him at first, apologizes but says he shouldn't have scared her -> he remembers her/the moniker she goes by -> they talk about plot for a few pages -> Stephanie starts flirting

Robin (1993) #4, ID in alt

Which...is so fascinating to me and says so much about Stephanie. She highlights the fact that Tim "remembered" her. Like. Steph. Girl. This is our bar? It's sweet but kind of speaks to how much Stephanie is ignored at home/how little and sporadically she's shown interacting with her peers (and rarely ever the same kids twice). Her idea of peak romance is just...being on someone's mind even when you're not there.

Kind of also adds layers to Steph's proclivity towards jealousy later on, a manifestation of her insecurity and loneliness (though don't get it twisted, she's not written this way bc Dixon and co think it's an interesting character flaw, they wrote it bc they think it's an inherent character flaw of (particularly young) women/girls, which is very apparent in how he approaches Ariana's character as well from what I've read)

Also the fact that Steph becomes so smitten for Tim almost immediately after this is (a few issues later she aggressively flirts with him during AN ACTIVE HOSTAGE SITUATION. WHERE SHE'S THE HOSTAGE) again is kind of a mixture of kind of funny and sad. One boy is nice to her once and she's fully ready to wife him. Girl you are deranged (affectionate) (concerned)

#ramblings of a lunatic #dc comics #stephanie brown #tim drake #timsteph #meta #< ??? ig #robin 1993 #made this post and forgot to finish. saved it in drafts. saw posts that annoyed me. proceeded to finish it #the subset of fans who think they're doing a righteous feminism by giving steph more flaws than she has in canon...headaches #yes flawed female characters are important representation no i dont think you projecting chuck dixons conservative values onto her-#-is doing her character a great favour. if so you need to commit to the bit and make tim a stone cold nark /j #sorry okay im done vaguing. there's real things going on in the world that matter. the bad take is the mind killer etc etc #anyway the zero to 100 progression of early timsteph is fascinating. on the one hand i know it's mostly a product of its time #both in terms of portrayals of romance (esp teen romance) and partially of women and girls by dixon (not extremely boy obsessed-#-but there's a. dark shadow of the boy crazy trope. a gentle whiff of it in the air. just a little)#but bc this aspect isn't blatantly/egregiously author bias i choose to analyse it #i could also analyse how steph in general is portrayed as liking guys she can't/shouldn't have a little #(her crush on the much older detective in bg2009 and also tim a little bit w/ the secret identity thing)#(but that's a whole other discussion. also that aspect of the romance in bg2009 is. also a little sexistly motivated-#-and also dropped part way through to an extent so like..not exactly ripe for analysis)#ANYWHO i love you Steph <3 you're unwell and yet so adorable and compelling Steph <3

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spoiledqueenie · 2 months

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The conclusions Babs and Bruce somehow learned from Stephanie’s death:

“We have to stop letting these untrained kids go out and fight by discouraging them and belittling them.”

The conclusion they were supposed to have gotten:

“These kids are going to do this anyways, so we have to train/prepare them and give them a safe place to advance their skills.”

#stephanie brown #spoiler dc #batman #barbara gordon #bruce wayne #batgirl #oracle #batfam #i've been re reading #batgirl 2009 #and that scene where babs tells steph about showing her autopsy to misfit to stop her from crime-fighting...#oh how i wanted steph to snap back #(not that it maters but that was dumb anyways bc Misfit is literally a meta-human with healing powers so...)

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akicklineisinevitable · 5 months

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no actually i call Paul the final girl a lot but Steph is too. especially with NPMD being a sendup of teen slashers, Steph just ticks all the boxes for the Final Girl Trope. she's a tomboy, she's popular but not a Mean Girl, she even follows the Scream rules: (on stage) she doesn't drink, do drugs, have sex, or say she'll Be Right Back. you know who does break those rules? Max, who enters the Waylon place drunk, and promptly dies. who has sex with Grace and dies again. and yeah she's not the ONLY survivor but like, neither was Sidney Prescott. ik im reading way too into this but with how the Hatchetfield shows emphasise and play with narrative roles i feel like it has to be intentional

#like. nerdy prudes is a slasher!! it's gotta have a final girl!!#horror movie autism strikes again. girl help the themes and motifs #originals #steph lauter #stephanie lauter #hatchetverse #hatchetfield #hatchetfield musicals #hatchetfield series #npmd #nerdy prudes must die #hatchetfield meta

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